AutoCAD C&G 2D Examination - complaint.

[rsian]

Hi,

Thought I would register and let off some steam.

I am coming to the end of a year long evening class 2D AutoCAD course, and after breezing through the practical side of things, I came unstuck on the exam.

Now, I didn't revise or anything for it, as it was a multiple choice exam done in exam conditions on a pc in class, and I though it would be a piece of cake.

Three of us failed, and all but one other student just scraped through it with passes.

To be perfectly honest, I found it embarrassing having to keep on asking the tutor for advice on some of the questions (as a couple of others also had to do).

I have never in my life sat through an exam which was soooooo poorly written, to the extent that the course tutor couldn't answer some of the questions.

Poor spelling, appalling grammar, words repeated, words missing, incorrect words (the word 'prevent' instead of 'preview'), ambiguous questions, questions where more than one answer would be correct...

Not bitterness because I didn't pass it (i'll sit it again next week), but it really was pathetic.

Anyone else sat this?

[Strix]

who wrote this exam and how much did the course cost you?

[rsian]

The course is City & Guilds, so I imagine it was something to do with them?

Course was around £400 I think.

[Cad64]

I can't imagine that this is the first time this test has been given, is it? Haven't many previous students taken it and passed? If it really is that badly written, to the point that you actually failed because of the poor grammar, spelling, missing and incorrect words, etc., etc., then I think you should contact whomever runs this institution you attend, and present your case. Show them all of the errors on the test that led to your failure and let them know how displeased you are with your experience at their school. Tell them you want these test results thrown out and demand to be retested with a new exam that has been proof-read for accuracy. You're paying good money for this education and you should be taught by competent instructors.

But that's just my opinion. o:)

Just make sure it really was the poorly written test that caused you to fail and not just that you didn't know the correct answers. :P
If they agree to retest you and you fail that one too, you're gonna look really bad. :lol:

[Lazer]

I sat the G&G courses, and agree with you the course need to be reviewed. I would suggest you talk to the tutor, tell him due to a poor written exam it cost you a fail, lets see what he says? also tell him to take it further and write to the board of examiners with all the errors.

[Strix]

I'd not only be contacting the board of examiners but be contacting trading standards at that price!

have you got a copy of this exam we can peruse?

[Lazer]

trading standards at that price!


:? What do they have to do with the cost of a course? all courses cost alot, every course at college cost money and £200 - £400 bracket are common be that cad or hair dressing.

[rsian]

Not everyones exam was the same.
The questions are randomly picked from a database for each student, so I couldn't begin to find out what all the questions were.

We looked at the breakdown of the test, and I probably failed down to a couple of questions, but to be honest, the test didn't make a lot of sense to me - not only because of the poor quality of the writing of the test, but also because I made no attempt to study for it as there were a couple of quesitons which I'm sure I got qot wrong which I really shouldn't have.

I'll re-sit it first, and then decide what to do.

My point is, I should have passed it even with several questions making little sense so I'm not looking for an excuse, BUT, had some of the questions made more sense, I would probably have scraped it.

[Norts]

Would you complain soooo hard if you couldn't understand a briefing by an overling at employment?
If so, then you shouldn't be working there in the first place.

You understand CAD right ?
If so, you should be perfectly able to decipher bad grammer and spelling, as such things should not derail you from answering question about CAD.
Deal with it.
Your mummy can't help you now.

[Lazer]

You will nail the next one and be a expert in a few years time, I wish you all the best:)

[Norts]

.... I probably failed down .... because I made no attempt to study for it a...

If you need to study for a CAD exam, then you not ready to be released onto ANY version of AutoCAD in a business environment.

[Strix]

:? What do they have to do with the cost of a course? all courses cost alot, every course at college cost money and £200 - £400 bracket are common be that cad or hair dressing.I agree, and if it were me I'd be making damned sure I got to the bottom of this one, but most people have a 'well it was a free course, so I won't bother' attitude

[Strix]

ahhh, more info :wink:

so you think it could be more to do with you than with the questions then?

[Lazer]

If you need to study for a CAD exam, then you not ready to be released onto ANY version of AutoCAD in a business environment.

Also lets remember C&G exams are based on course work, so you study as you go along, the exam at the end is based on the work you did prior to exam.

[Lazer]

ahhh, more info :wink:

so you think it could be more to do with you than with the questions then?

Outch! :huh:

[Strix]

did you mis-spell that on purpose deelay? :D

[Lazer]

:D sure did!

[Cad64]

You understand CAD right ?
If so, you should be perfectly able to decipher bad grammer and spelling, as such things should not derail you from answering question about CAD.


Norts is right, you really shouldn't have to study to pass a Cad test. If you completed all of your assignments throughout the course, then you should have no problem passing the test, poorly written or not. There's no excuse for the state of the exam that you described, but you can't blame your failure on the test. You have to accept responsibility for it yourself. Since you failed it, maybe you do need to study, because you obviously have not learned everything that you should have and you are not ready for a job in the real world yet.

It would be fun to have a look at this test though. I'd like to see just how bad it really is. :P

[rsian]

You always so grumpy Norts?

The point is, I didn't 'study' for it, because as I said, I found the coursework such a breeze I thought there would be no reason to need to study.

I suppose you would really need to see the exam to understand what I mean, but the fact that EVERY single person who took it thought they had failed, and everyone (but one person), who did pass it, just about scraped through within a couple of percent.

A lot of the terminology used in the exam was different to what we were taught also, aswell as having questions which we just hadn't covered during the class coursework.

Like I said, I'm not making excuses, but the fact that virtually everyone that passed just about scraped through speaks volumes about the quality of the exam/tutor.

One of the questions I can remember:

How do you edit a hatch?

a)......
b)......
c)Double click the hatch pattern.
d)Right-click on the hatch and select properties.

Not sure if it made a difference to our understanding, but we were taught using 2002, and the exam was assumed for people using 2007.

[Cad64]

:o They were teaching you on 2002? That version is over 6 years old! A lot has changed since then. I would think that learning institutions would update their software at least every other year, and at the most every 5 years, in order to stay current with the real world. I personally wouldn't even enroll in a course unless I was going to be learning on the latest and greatest version of the software. But what's done is done.

If the test is really that bad, and every person in your class failed, then I would say you all need to get together as one and speak to your instructor about this. You should also not be tested on a version of a program that you are not familiar with. If you learned on 2002, then you should be tested on 2002, not 2007.

There is another side to this as well. If every person in the class failed, what does that say about the instructor himself? I think I would have serious doubts about my teaching ability if all of my students failed an exam covering things that I had taught them. Maybe he should re-evaluate his teaching methods. :P

Bottom line is, I think you should talk to your instructor and let him know your feelings as you have expressed them here. Tell him everythng you have told us and see what his response is. I don't think taking this same test over again is going to yield any better results for you. You need to be tested on the material you have covered in class on the version of the program you have been working on. How can you be expected to answer questions about something you've never done? I think I would have trouble passing a test written for Autocad 2015. How would I know how the hatch editing will work in that version? :?

BTW: The answer to your sample question is both "C" and "D" for 2007. How can there be two correct answers? :unsure: Although, technically, you don't right click on the hatch and select properties. You left click to select the hatch and then right click and select properties.

[Lazer]

Not sure if it made a difference to our understanding, but we were taught using 2002, and the exam was assumed for people using 2007.

Demand a refund!

[Bespoke]

Would you complain soooo hard if you couldn't understand a briefing by an overling at employment?
If so, then you shouldn't be working there in the first place.

You understand CAD right ?
If so, you should be perfectly able to decipher bad grammer and spelling, as such things should not derail you from answering question about CAD.
Deal with it.
Your mummy can't help you now.

Norts

I totally agree and believe you have hit the nail on the head; this guy should have informed the lecturer at the time and not after the event.


Someone got a tissue to give this guy?

And trading standards can’t help this guy if he will not put the time and effort into studying.

[Strix]

Demand a refund!
can somebody add a poll to this post whilst we all vote on 'demand a refund' or 'serves you right'?

How the heck do you sit an exam for a piece of software you've never seen? :reallymad:

Edit: can you get your hands on a copy of the prospectus for the college for the year just gone?

[Bespoke]

Surely the idea of any exam is that you don’t see any of the questions first so you pass or fall on what you know or what you don’t know.

When a sat [ and may I add passed with flying colours any one like to see my certificate ] my City & guilds exam for Autocad 2D way back 2004 we did not have the multiple choice on a pc it was good old fashioned paper. The use of the multiple choices on a pc came in with the exams for 2005 I think.

Standing up for the City & Guilds body they are as old as the hills and a very professional outfit and probably the most renowned examination boards in the land when it comes to national and international examinations.

So the long and sort of it which this guy as admitted his self he did not put the work in, in the first place.

[Strix]

Leave him alone Bespoke

the validity of an exam is not based on the media it's produced on - and if we examine the situation - a computer exam SHOULD be sat on a computer :roll:

He's been given an exam in a piece of software that he hasn't had the opportunity to operate - which is like answering questions in an English exam on Romeo and Juliet when you've been reading and taking apart Macbeth for the past semester

The guy has done the work set by the tutor, and has not struggled with the work set, so he has every reason to believe he has a good grasp of the necessary elements to sit the exam. The class results show that he isn't exactly below average in his failing at this exam

Welcome to the forum rsian :) if you have a dig about in the 'userCP' you'll find an ignore list you can add people to if you like :wink:

[rsian]

Thanks Strix, but guys like Norts and Bespoke are ten a penny, you get their type on every forum, as you say - best to just ignore them.

Anyway, just to clarify a few things.

The university received the updated s/w halfway through the course, but the tutor thought it would be unfair to suddenly change s/w from 2002 to 2007 midway through the course.

I am 'assuming' the exam was based on AutoCAD 2007 because that was the version we were meant to have been using, but I don't know for certain as the computerised exam was just 'City & Guilds AutoCAD 2D Examination' - I don't know if there would have been a noticeable difference between a 2002 exam and a 2007 exam.

For the record, this was a year long evening course (3 hours, one evening a week). I was the first person to complete the coursework (with weeks to spare), and passed it with consummate ease - this was with students who were doing the coursework at home aswell, whereas I was limited to class time only.
For this reason, I had no doubt whatsoever that any studying would be required.

The simple fact is that the examination was in no way representative of what we had been doing, and the very low pass scores and several failures are proof of this.

I am not blaming anyone for me failing other than myself, BUT, when I have failed by maybe one or two questions, and I have to answer questions like the one I have posted, where two answers are possible, I feel that this was a contributory factor.

[Alan Cullen]

I think it would probably be a good idea if everyone just settled down a bit.....having a crack at each other does not help the situation.....

[Norts]

Thanks Strix, but guys like Norts and Bespoke are ten a penny, you get their type on every forum, as you say - best to just ignore them.


And what type am I then, Mr Expert ?
Someone who can easily translate skills from AutoCAD 2002 to 2007 ?
It's real easy sir.

Something you may comprehend one day.

Also, I don't take kindly to such comments that you made there, when you know pretty much nothing about me; and yet you think you do.

Have a nice time passing your course, hopefully our paths will never cross during employment.

[Strix]

:shock:

Norts - this isn't like you :(

[Norts]

:shock:

Norts - this isn't like you :(

Don't worry, Strix.

I will be a lot less visible around this place for the forseeable future.
I guess that will please a number of people.

[James]

the 2002 -2007 issue seems the strange part to me.

surely if you completed the coursework using 2002, the exam should of reflected using 2002.

ie if it was the 2007 version, surely the coursework/work set wouldnt be worded correct etc for 2002.

i'd take it up with the tutor further or the head of department.

and believe me, i've been to several colleges and this sort of thing they always close their ears - i had a big "whoo haar" with my HNC as the tutor we had left (he disliked the new head of department) and took all the classes coursework with him, which was unfair as it left us in limbo.

it took me just over a year (after the course had finished) to get it sorted and my certificate!!

also, the course is relevant to me as i wanna do it in September (deelay did you do this course around Northant? could you pm me TIA)

[Tiger]

Don't worry, Strix.

I will be a lot less visible around this place for the forseeable future.
I guess that will please a number of people.

..hope not Norts - I won't be happier...:(

[dbroada]

i had a big "whoo haar" with my HNC as the tutor we had left (he disliked the new head of department) and took all the classes coursework with him, which was unfair as it left us in limbo.At college I studied for Physics but passed "Science - building & construction" at O level. Our lecturer had been teaching us the topics he understood would be in the physics exam only for the (C&G) supplied mock papers to bear little relationship. He managed to get an alternate set of final papers but they were for a different (but close) subject.

[Strix]

don't C&G have a syllabus?

how the heck did that happen DB?

[Alan Cullen]

Don't worry, Strix.

I will be a lot less visible around this place for the forseeable future.
I guess that will please a number of people.

Hope not, mate.....

I'm with Tiger here.......The number of people who will not like you backing off far outweighs the number of people (probably only one) who want you to back off.......

Hell, mate...you are part of this forum......a damn good part.......don't let people put you off........

Even though you have very recently become a bit cranky......you're our cranky little buggar......so stick around mate...and do what you do best......create controversy and answer questions.......:lol: :lol: :thumbsup:

[dbroada]

incompetance is the chief suspect. By whom? I'm not sure. The important thing is that I got the necessary qualifications to go on to ONC so I didn't really care - and this was a very long time ago.

[Cymro]

I did my C & G in 1993

The computers on the college had release 12 (If i remember correctly) and the exam questions were based on release 9. Which was really stupid as release 12 was vastly different to release 9 and some of the questions did not relate to that release.

Lesson before the test Students were all given the possible multiple choice questions and it was a case of learning the ones you were not sure of.

If i remember correctly for each question two of the answers were stupid and it was a case of either or with the next two if you were not sure, there were a few dodgy questions then.

As you know now what to expect best of luck on your resit.

[rsian]

And what type am I then, Mr Expert ?
Someone who can easily translate skills from AutoCAD 2002 to 2007 ?
It's real easy sir.

Something you may comprehend one day.

Also, I don't take kindly to such comments that you made there, when you know pretty much nothing about me; and yet you think you do.

Have a nice time passing your course, hopefully our paths will never cross during employment.

From the tone of your first post on this thread, I can garner all the information required to realise you are a tit.


Don't worry, Strix.

I will be a lot less visible around this place for the forseeable future.
I guess that will please a number of people.

And this post confirms that you probably realise it yourself also. Like I said - ten a penny.

[rsian]

I did my C & G in 1993

The computers on the college had release 12 (If i remember correctly) and the exam questions were based on release 9. Which was really stupid as release 12 was vastly different to release 9 and some of the questions did not relate to that release.

Lesson before the test Students were all given the possible multiple choice questions and it was a case of learning the ones you were not sure of.

If i remember correctly for each question two of the answers were stupid and it was a case of either or with the next two if you were not sure, there were a few dodgy questions then.

As you know now what to expect best of luck on your resit.

Thanks.

As I said, I'm not sure if the test was a different version to what we had been learning on, but the very low marks by everyone were probably decent enough indicators that the questions were not entirely relevant to what we had been doing in class.

[Strix]

From the tone of your first post on this thread, I can garner all the information required ....
he isn't actually - he's just having an off day

if you do a search for the rest of his posts (by clicking his username) you'll see that he's generally one of the more helpful and knowledgeable members

[rsian]

he isn't actually - he's just having an off day

if you do a search for the rest of his posts (by clicking his username) you'll see that he's generally one of the more helpful and knowledgeable members

I'm not one to get into arguments with forum members having a bad day, but my first post was just letting off some steam, not looking for excuses or anything and I get this:


Would you complain soooo hard if you couldn't understand a briefing by an overling at employment?
If so, then you shouldn't be working there in the first place.

You understand CAD right ?
If so, you should be perfectly able to decipher bad grammer and spelling, as such things should not derail you from answering question about CAD.
Deal with it.
Your mummy can't help you now.

A bit pathetic you might agree, and hardly constructive.

[Cymro]

As has been said Norts is one of the most helpful posters on the forum.

It's during exam times like this that there are a lot of posts on the forum looking for anwers for college questions, many of these from posters who are too lazy to do their reaearch.

He may have misread your original post.

[Norts]

if you continued to read my posts on this thread rsian, you would notice that i think skills learnt on one version of CAD are eminently transferrable to a later version.
If you don't understand that concept, maybe you would be better choosing a different career.

also, if you cannot take criticism, you should not really write such posts on a public forum.

i can see, you are hardly a nice person, but i did not lower myself to name-call you, unlike yourself.

maybe when you have grown up a little and developed a thicker skin; maybe then you would get a little more respect.

i await that day

[Bespoke]

The course is City & Guilds, so I imagine it was something to do with them?

Course was around £400 I think.

Two local collages to myself are offering Auto Cad 2D City & Guilds level 2 and the fees of around £230.00
http://www.dudleycol.ac.uk/courses2/search/course_details.asp?ID=268 (http://www.dudleycol.ac.uk/courses2/search/course_details.asp?ID=268)
http://www.solihull.ac.uk/course_details.php?code=QET2TC25%2FCCP0 (http://www.solihull.ac.uk/course_details.php?code=QET2TC25%2FCCP0)

[Bespoke]

Hi,

Thought I would register and let off some steam.

I am coming to the end of a year long evening class 2D AutoCAD course, and after breezing through the practical side of things, I came unstuck on the exam.

Now, I didn't revise or anything for it, as it was a multiple choice exam done in exam conditions on a pc in class, and I though it would be a piece of cake.

Three of us failed, and all but one other student just scraped through it with passes.

To be perfectly honest, I found it embarrassing having to keep on asking the tutor for advice on some of the questions (as a couple of others also had to do).

I have never in my life sat through an exam which was soooooo poorly written, to the extent that the course tutor couldn't answer some of the questions.

Poor spelling, appalling grammar, words repeated, words missing, incorrect words (the word 'prevent' instead of 'preview'), ambiguous questions, questions where more than one answer would be correct...

Not bitterness because I didn't pass it (i'll sit it again next week), but it really was pathetic.

Anyone else sat this?

Rsian

On your very first thread you have managed to whip up one hell of a hornet nest and set member against member I hope you are proud of this accomplishment.

Can we ask if you complained to your lecture at the time you sat the exam regarding these alleged poorly written questions and would you be so kind and let us all have details of what course you undertook and at what collage? Only I was wondering if it was Auto Cad 2D City & Guilds level 2

Were you looking for sympathy I am wondering after all you have admitted that you did not study for the exam. All of us at the this forum offer a helping hand to all those who those who are in need of advice along life’s long journey of AutoCAD and in some cases also give sympathy or a shoulder to cry on if your world as just gone belly up. But sir you did not study due to the fact that you may have felt that it was beneath you who knows but you failed and if you are a man you should be in a position to take these sort of knocks that life throws at you once in a while without getting you knickers in a twist.

When and if you get to know the members of this forum a little better you will find members like Norts a great asset and not a hindrance to you.

And finally can I suggest that think for a while and just maybe string a few words together to show you are a man and apologise for the upset you have given this forum over the past few days. And in the mean time if you feel you have a case against the City & Guilds you should take it up with them and your collage.

P.S Forgive my bad spelling and grammar only we are not all perfect are we?

[Lazer]

the course is relevant to me as i wanna do it in September (deelay did you do this course around Northant? could you pm me TIA)

Yep I did the course in Northants Pm on its way.


[ TOPIC HAS BEEN CLOSED - PM ME IF ANYONE HAS AN ISSUE - GCP]