PDA

View Full Version : Site Plan Scale????



NuttZ
6th Jul 2007, 04:55 pm
What scale is this drawing?? The paper size is 24x36 and its a 2004 file.

when it is printed the contractor is saying that it is 1:10...but it says custom scale in the properities...and when I put it at 1:10 it is huge.:?

If I print it and use a 1:10 scale it seems right...but not 100% right.

The drawing is 1:1 in model...Im just lost and its been a long week.

any of you have any thoughts

Thanks,

PS_Port
6th Jul 2007, 05:01 pm
David,
first why are you printing imperial ("s) to metric (1:10)
that just wont work...

NuttZ
6th Jul 2007, 05:05 pm
Port...

I just got the drawing...and i am trying to make sence of it.

SLW210
6th Jul 2007, 05:06 pm
Here is what I get on the layout sheet...............

Set up units: ARCHITECTURAL , Paper size: .3 x .2
Drawing scale: 1/10" = 1'-0" , Detail scale: 1/10" = 1'-0"

The Model................

Set up units: ARCHITECTURAL , Paper size: .1 x .075
Drawing scale: 1/10" = 1'-0" , Detail scale: 1/10" = 1'-0"

Alan Cullen
6th Jul 2007, 05:24 pm
Hey, NuttZ

Do you have a reference dimension on there.......(I can't open the drawing here.....I'm at home...no acad)

If you do......then rescale the drawing to suit....and carry on like normal........

Set up your PS to suit you....then tell the contractor what scale it is....

Alternatively....tell the contractor to use the text dimensions given and STOP scaling off the drawing. We often threaten contractors with rejection of works (and progress payments) if we find those works were because of scaling off drawings......

eldon
6th Jul 2007, 05:36 pm
I thought the whole point of Paper Space was so that you could plot the layout at 1:1. Having plotted it, you get a scale rule and measure the 25' dimension to confirm the scaling. :)

If you go into Model Space, and check the distance of the 25' dimension, you find that it is 300 units long. Therefore the drawing units are inches :D

NuttZ
6th Jul 2007, 05:48 pm
Thanks for the replies...


Alan...the contractor scaled off the drawing and used the 1:20 and it was 1:10...he was way off on the bid. :lol:

Alan Cullen
6th Jul 2007, 06:07 pm
Ergo.....do not ever scale off drawings.......:lol:

profcad
6th Jul 2007, 06:26 pm
The drawing was drawn in architectural units (inches).

For 1"=10' you need to set the scale factor of the viewport by using the zoom command 1/120xp. The viewport is scaled correctly.

There is no scale bar on the drawing to reflect the current scale.

How did the contractor know what scale to use?

hazardman
6th Jul 2007, 06:26 pm
what i'm getting further confirms the above...

the actual scale of the viewport is 1:120 which is 1/10" = 1'-0"...neither of them is a standard metric or imperial scale....the model space unit is inches using architectural (if you offset 25 you get something 25 inches away and not 25')...the paper sheet does measure 36"x24"--the standard ARCH D size...


and just to clarrify a scale of 1:10 does not mean 1/10"=1'-0"...if you do the calculation 1:10 whould be 1x(12/10) : 10x(12/10) = 1.2"=1'-0" :huh:

the closest imperial scale for 1:120 is 3/32"=1'-0" => 3/32=12 => 3/32 x (32/3) : 12 x (32/3) => 1:128... :wink:

Cad64
6th Jul 2007, 07:02 pm
The drawing is 1:10 which means 1"=10'-0". That's a standard architectural scale of measurement.

If you draw a line 2.5" long in paper space, it is equal to the 25' dimension that is shown on the drawing. That means the viewport scale is 1:10 because 1" equals 10'.

The viewport scale in the original layout was set by typing 1/120 in the "Custom Scale" line of the Properties palette.

I have added a second layout tab to the drawing. Check the "Plot Scale" section of the Plot dialog to see the change I made. This change allows you to set the viewport scale in the "Standard Scale" line of the Properties palette to 1:10. Both layouts should print out identical.

NuttZ
6th Jul 2007, 08:50 pm
The drawing is 1:10 which means 1"=10'-0". That's a standard architectural scale of measurement.

If you draw a line 2.5" long in paper space, it is equal to the 25' dimension that is shown on the drawing. That means the viewport scale is 1:10 because 1" equals 10'.

The viewport scale in the original layout was set by typing 1/120 in the "Custom Scale" line of the Properties palette.

I have added a second layout tab to the drawing. Check the "Plot Scale" section of the Plot dialog to see the change I made. This change allows you to set the viewport scale in the "Standard Scale" line of the Properties palette to 1:10. Both layouts should print out identical.

Thanks!! I got it now :D

eldon
6th Jul 2007, 09:42 pm
Hey, NuttZ


Alternatively....tell the contractor to use the text dimensions given and STOP scaling off the drawing. We often threaten contractors with rejection of works (and progress payments) if we find those works were because of scaling off drawings......


I must have a little rant here. :x

Putting "Do not scale" on drawings is somehow admitting that the drawing does not give the complete information necessary to complete the works on the drawing.

In reality, when there is not enough information on the drawing, the workman, instead of running to you to sign his sheets for waiting time, will try and complete the works by scaling off the drawing. So each drawing must be drawn as accurately as possible and have a scale bar.

If the workman cannot use a scale rule, that is a different matter, but each drawing should have a complete set of information so the works can be completed without scaling.

Rant over. :sweat:

hazardman
7th Jul 2007, 01:32 am
sorry cad64 but i disagree with you completely...

afaik 1:10 is a ratio and both sides would need to be expressed in the same units...so, to me, 1:10 would mean 1mm=10mm, or 1"=10", or 1'=10' etc...in order for 1"=10' then the ratio needs to be 1"=120" thus 1:120...so the zoom factor for the viewport would then need to be 1/120xp...choosing the default 1:10 in the pulldown will not give you that as it would be 1/10xp...and that's why choosing 1:10 on the original viewport zooms in on the model space dramatically to 12x larger then it need to be...

also what you did in the second paperspace tab seems to me counter intuitive because you scaled up the viewport by 12x?..in this scenario you are plotting the paperspace at a scale rather then 1:1 to make it 36"x24" again...

i don't know...maybee i'm missing something?..perhaps there's a convension that saying 1:10 is suppose to mean 1"=10' but being in a somewhat metric country i've never encountered that expression...

anyway, after all that said the original drawing IS set to 1"=10'-0"...:sweat:...so it should have ploted to scale ok so ,NuttZ, i'm at a loss unlees at some point you ploted w/ scaled to fit because, technically, a 36x24 border will not fit the printing margins unless the sheet is an expanded d-size...

Cad64
7th Jul 2007, 03:16 am
sorry cad64 but i disagree with you completely...

:huh: Ok, let's just calm down for a minute . . .

I think we've all been around long enough to know by now that it's different strokes for different folks. Every firm has their own set of standards and their own way of doing things. What works for some, makes no sense to others. You can disagree all you want, but I work with these architectural drawings and scales every day and 1:10 means 1"=10'-0" for us. It may mean something totally different for you metric types, but I don't work in metric so I wouldn't know. :unsure:

I realize that 1:10 is a ratio and maybe, just out of habit, I've grown accustomed to looking at it as 1"=10' when in reality it is 1 unit = 10 units.

The layout that I set up in the drawing is our standard layout and this is how it works:
By changing the paper space "Plot Scale" from 1" = 1 unit to 1" = 12 units, we are essentially scaling up our paper space by a factor of 12, going from inches to feet. This takes our sheet size from 36"x24" to 36'x24'. So now when we set our viewport scale at 1:10, 1 paper space unit = 10 model space units, (1'=10'). Our scale bar is sized accordingly. In paper space it is actually 1' long. When we print the sheet, it gets scaled back down to 1/12 it's paper space size to fit on the 36"x24" sheet. This makes our scale bar 1"=10'.

:unsure: I don't know if I've explained it very well, but that's how it works.

If you print out both layouts you will see that they both will print out exactly the same size at 1"=10'. It's just two different ways to arrive at the same destination.

Alan Cullen
7th Jul 2007, 05:01 am
Eldon.....we work in the civil field.....with drawings at 1:500 (generally).......so you can't scale off them, given that the print shinks and expands with the temperature.......

We also use coords for setting out, and the contractor has an item in the schedule for construction and setting out survey.....so he really has no excuse to scale off the drawings......

fahim108
7th Jul 2007, 06:18 am
Conclusion - ALWAYS use the Metric system, it's far more well-designed than its Imperial counterpart... :geek:

Sadly, in India, we still have the imperial thingy cruising along :oops:

eldon
7th Jul 2007, 08:47 am
Eldon.....we work in the civil field.....with drawings at 1:500 (generally).......so you can't scale off them, given that the print shinks and expands with the temperature.......

We also use coords for setting out, and the contractor has an item in the schedule for construction and setting out survey.....so he really has no excuse to scale off the drawings......

I quite understand that the climate alters the scale of paper prints, but it is still no excuse not to draw everything where it should be. The electronic drawing might be used for extracting the coordinates for setting out.

If you were setting up a work compound, then I would think scaling would be accurate enough, unless there were pinch points. But the roadway drawing should have a note as to where the coordinate information could be found, then it is a complete drawing :D

Drawing standards are very variable, and having started in the days of tracing paper, electronic drawings were a giant leap forward in the ability to have accurate drawings.

I know what drawing users shouldn't do, but I also know what they actually do do :(

hazardman
7th Jul 2007, 02:02 pm
hey cad64...i fully understand what you're doing and i appologies for sounding gruff (when i don't realy mean too)...it's just i think the whole point of paper space is that the title blocks should always be 1:1 (and matching the model space units) especially if you have more then 1 paperspace tab...

in isolation what you did is fine but i normally work with drawings that can have up to 10 paperspace tabs and when it comes to in-house plotting or generating *.plt files it's nice not having to think about the plotting scale other then 1:1 for each tab...in essence wht you did by scaling the paperspace up by 12x is making the viewport 1:120 (1:10 x 12) so in the end we're at the same ratio :lol:

SLW210
7th Jul 2007, 08:20 pm
Conclusion - ALWAYS use the Metric system, it's far more well-designed than its Imperial counterpart... :geek:

Sadly, in India, we still have the imperial thingy cruising along :oops:

We occasionally use the SI metric system at work, but by far the most work is done in U.S. Customary Units (Imperial). I really wish we could do everything in SI it is so much easier. :(