A bit of pre-AutoCAD drafting history [Archive]

brassworks

12th Jul 2007, 09:37 pm

Among other interests, I reenact the American Civil War. With my hand-drafting experience dating from the early 1980s, and my lifetime fascination for maps, it was a natural evolution to learn how to reproduce Civil War era maps using period drafting instruments. Over the years, I've picked up bits and pieces of information here and there, besides a functional assortment of old instruments. And I've produced some nice hand-drafted replicas of period maps, learning a lot about hand-drafting with ruling pens and such.

A ruling pen, though made of steel, does wear irregularly with constant use, and I can see evidence of that wear on old ruling pens I have acquired over the years, although I've never drafted long enough to effect that amount of wear myself. I've read instructions about how to use fine sharpening stones on the elliptical ends of the blades of the ruling pens to hone them back into shape.

Imagine my delight a few weeks ago, when poking through an old hobby box that had belonged to my father, to find a drawer full of sharpening stones, including one about the size of a small matchbox, in its original cardboard box, stamped with a brand, identification as to the contents, and its purpose, which included "for sharpening" [among other things] "surgical instruments and drafting instruments." Not a whole lot of folks these days would understand why drafting instruments would need sharpening. The stone is so fine that it resembles marble or soapstone. That's a fine treasure to add to my collection.

ReMark

13th Jul 2007, 11:08 am

I might be dating myself here but I used ruling pens at one time and still have one or two hanging around. Don't know why I can't part with them even though they haven't been used in many years.

Alan Cullen

13th Jul 2007, 11:34 am

Bit like me, ReMark....

Still have all my drafting gear from the 60's in the bottom desk draw.....can't part with any of it.......I guess it's a reminder of how we used to do things.......and how lucky we are today in comparison....

But, brassworks....hang onto that stuff.....unfortunately in my day ruling pens were going out of style....replaced with rapidographs.....and I still have a heap of those.......the ink has probably dried so well they will never work again......no matter how hard I lick the nib.......still got a lot of tatoos where I stabbed myself with the bloody nibs.....Indian ink :x

This all does bring back memories.......:D

Strix

13th Jul 2007, 04:06 pm

do we get to see pics then? :)

SLW210

13th Jul 2007, 05:02 pm

I still have some of my drafting equipment around somewhere.

ReMark

13th Jul 2007, 05:20 pm

I also have a draw full of templates for circles, squares, pipe fittings, architectural symbols, structural steel shapes, highway signage, ellipses, fluid power and arrows. Kept them all plus a nice assortment of french curves.

Alan Cullen

13th Jul 2007, 05:28 pm

And lets not forget the old brass parrallel ruler.......which one of our enginners knocked off from me some 10 years ago...I still have a problem reclaiming that every now and then.....just so he knows it actually belongs to me.......

zars

13th Jul 2007, 05:43 pm

Yeah post some pics for those of us who have never seen equipment like that.

Alan Cullen

15th Jul 2007, 03:15 am

I'll see what I can come up with tomorrow.......:lol:

dbroada

15th Jul 2007, 05:18 pm

soon after I entered the DO our office went mad for "MIFA" pencils. They took rectangular leads of 0.5mm & 0.3mm width so were great for drawing - and we had tracers back then for doing the inky work. The trouble with these pencils was that the lead holder wore away down one side so mine regularly got a brass sleeve soldered in place as a "temporary" repair. Not long after that the tracers disappeared and Rotring pens became the norm.

Alan Cullen

15th Jul 2007, 11:42 pm

Alan Cullen

16th Jul 2007, 04:00 am

Okay.....he's some piccies of old drafting aids ......:lol:

Fench curves, circle templates......
1850

Lettering stencils, Leroy lettering stencils.....
1851

Drawing pens, scalpel (for scapping out to amend), drawing set......
1852

Railway curves......
1853

Parrallel ruler, set squares, erasing shield, protractor......
1854

dbroada

16th Jul 2007, 07:10 am

I remenber the days of tracers....still remember a funny story happened a long time ago.....

One of the drafties wrote "6000 wide driveway" on the plan (in his sloppy manner).....the tracer typed "good wide driveway"......and that got missed on the check.....and went out to contract.......:lol:one of our tracers kept producing drawings with lots of little circles up in one corner. When asked why she said that it was on the original drawing. When her drawing board was checked they were circles on her backing sheet in he area she used to start her drop bow compass. :lol:

Strix

16th Jul 2007, 08:35 am

oh wow! Railway curves? I must show those to Mr Strix :D

brassworks

16th Jul 2007, 01:04 pm

An office I worked in located in Portland, Maine, had a set of railroad curves made of zinc-galvanized steel, with the patent date stamped on them of "Nov 1, '98." When I worked there, it was in the early 1990s; these curves were manufactured in 1898. The set was still complete but for a couple of the smallest curves. They were even beveled for use with ink. Each had a hole in one end for hanging up, which we did.

Cymro

16th Jul 2007, 03:41 pm

Those Photos bring back memories.

Haven't seen railway curves in years and they were often used essentials not so long ago.
The scalpel was was also an often used tool before the erase command.:D

I too have a few tattoos to remind me of the times i stabbed myself with the Rotring.

SLW210

16th Jul 2007, 04:30 pm

AC.....I was expecting to see everything made out of stone. :D

Alan Cullen

16th Jul 2007, 04:47 pm

AC.....I was expecting to see everything made out of stone. :D

Yeah....angry green man......I'm not THAT old.......buggar of a man.....:lol:

Notice how some of the templates were taped together?

brassworks

16th Jul 2007, 04:55 pm

Even the Romans were modern enough to use iron to make some of their drafting instruments, like dividers.

Alan Cullen

16th Jul 2007, 05:35 pm

brassworks.....

Just whose side are you on here.....????????

zars

16th Jul 2007, 09:50 pm

AC.....I was expecting to see everything made out of stone. :D

LOL now you're gonna tell me that the cavemen made their drawings with these tools :P

ReMark

17th Jul 2007, 11:18 am

I have a chisel, mallet and a slab of granite. God forbid you make a mistake! All that fine stonework gone to waste. Bummer.

yedan

25th Jul 2007, 04:10 pm

i have some of my old rotering pens and pencils somewhere also have a hole template, letter templates and a srew thread and head template, bows compass and of course the old eraser shield :)

Geoffers

26th Jul 2007, 09:18 am

Alan Cullen

26th Jul 2007, 09:37 am

the reason we wrinklies keep all this old equipment might just be that although we revel in the high tech stuff, if and when the electricity fails (and it could, see recent events in NO and west of England ) we can bring them out again and the world will be saved! - by us crusty old heroes.

get back to sleep grandad

I'm exempt from returning to the bad old days of manual drafting......no drawing board......just a desk and side table......so when the power goes off, I just sit around and wait for it to come back on. :lol: :lol: :lol:

dbroada

26th Jul 2007, 09:51 am

I've even forgotten which end of the pencil you hold. And I'm no longer allowed near razor blades.

Alan Cullen

26th Jul 2007, 09:58 am

I've even forgotten which end of the pencil you hold. And I'm no longer allowed near razor blades.

Can you still buy razor blades ???? :lol:

I remember we used them for scratching out way back when......I kept getting too excited with them and breaking them.....and cutting my fingers......then I would end up with blood on the drawing.....which I then had to scratch off.......o:)

dbroada

26th Jul 2007, 10:22 am

I don't think a bic disposable would be too good at removing ink from tracing paper would it.

Of course, now we are used to CAD everything would be right first time! :thumbsup:

Which reminds me of some of the early stories about CAD. The users were so proud about how easy it was to change things they found they never completed any jobs. The boss would keep moving things "a little bit to the right" etc. Us on the board would just say "sure - what's the budget". :lol:

Geoffers

26th Jul 2007, 10:30 am

i could cope with razor blades, it was the erasing machine defeated me, allways ended up with holes in the tracing sheet, much too fierce (the machine, not me).

my first job at GLC (Greater London Council for you young 'uns) was keeping up to date the 'gold-backs' presentation scheme drawings of a big building opposite Madame Tusaudes (wrong spelling i know). it seems these were lines of real gold deposited on the reverse of the tracing sheet. its the only time i met this process and never learned why it was used. possibly because the lines were 'on' the surface and easily removed; not ink soaked into the fabric ofthe paper?

i told you before grandad Geoffers - get back to sleep, or work

Alan Cullen

26th Jul 2007, 10:35 am

With me it was always, "sure.....come back next week and we'll see how I'm going"......

We've actually got an Engineer at the moment who knows how easy it is to change things now....so he is forever changing things to suit how he wants it all.......but I don't cop him that much.....

I once told him I was not a tracer......and if he wanted the drafting done to how he wanted it, then he'd better get a tracer.......

I also told him not to tell me how to design to suit what he wanted.......either he designed it and used his tracer to draw it....or he accepted my design and presentation......at the moment I'm winning......:lol:

dbroada

26th Jul 2007, 10:43 am

was keeping up to date the 'gold-backs' presentation scheme drawings of a big building opposite Madame Tusaudes (wrong spelling i know). it seems these were lines of real gold deposited on the reverse of the tracing sheet. its the only time i met this process and never learned why it was used.
during my apprenticeship we used a system of "secondary masters" which we called cyclopoles. These were created using the dyeline machine and gave you a clear(ish) print with brown lines on the back, similar I guess to your "goldback". It was the old way of doing a "saveas". :D The first time I discovered that the "drawing" was on the back was when I drilled right through the film with the erasing machine. o:)

Alan Cullen

26th Jul 2007, 10:57 am

:lol: :lol: :lol: ...the good old days of always being on the "learning curve"......o:)

I would hate to remember the number of times I drilled through the film....or scatched though it......thank god for "magic tape"......:lol: :lol:

ReMark

26th Jul 2007, 11:01 am

My first drafting assignment was done in pencil on treated linen. It wasn't until the state department of transportation began the process of using mylar that we too switched over to it.

Our procedure for drawing was to flip the mylar over and draw the existing topo on the back with a lightweight pen (#000) then draw the proposed changes on the front with a heavier weight pen (#1). Text for existing objects was done in freehand (remember to slant the lettering) while text for proposed item was done using Leroy lettering templates.

Anyone here ever use a pantograph? We had two sizes. The largest of which had to be used on a 48"x84" drafting table. A pantograph allowed the user to enlarge or shrink a drawing by tracing the original with a metal stylus while a piece of lead reproduced the drawing at the proper scale.

How about flexible curves and spline holders? Ring any bells? We used to refer to the spline holder as a "whale". And finally, we'd hold down rolled up drawings using "hamburgers". These were round, made of leather, and filled with buck shot.

Tiger

26th Jul 2007, 11:22 am

:D I'm really enjoying this!

The only experience I have with all this stuff (and it's extremely limited) is that my teacher in my first Arch-course insisted that our first assignment (floorplans for a house, 5 people max 100sqm) had to be done with pen and paper... the following assignments could be done on either paper or in CAD. So I got a bunch of stuff (proper pens, eraser shield, letter and circle templates) to do ONE drawing..... but they are still in my drawer at home and sometimes they do come in handy :)

Alan Cullen

26th Jul 2007, 11:23 am

Yeah, mate.....I remember all that stuff.....my dad was the chief draftsman for the Forestry Dept in New Guinea (read the Chief Draftsman for the Gov in New Guinea).....and his office was huge......and he had all that gear.....and when I used to return to New Guinea for term holidays from College in Brisbane....I had to go into his section to work (fortunately on adult wages....which I loved). So, yeah, I gues that's where I got my grounding......

pantograph...I haven't heard that term in so many years.......I used to have to do all the that stuff...along with the overhead thingys (can't remember the name) for viewing stereo aerial photographs.....massive bloody machine.......

I was there at one time when dad was organising map making using aerial photography......cutting out old xrays from the hospital as templates....putting slots in them from each corner and overlaying them using these special pins to hold the all together.....so they knew how the photos had to line up.......pretty cerfisticated stuff......but primitive compared to today.....

Dad also used to get all the salesman coming to New Guinea trying to get contracts for supply (Steadler and all the rest) and they always gave him pen sets, drafting sets etc as samples....and dad always gave them to me....so I was the best equiped bloke at college for tech drawing......:roll:

brassworks

26th Jul 2007, 01:00 pm

I'm exempt from returning to the bad old days of manual drafting......no drawing board......just a desk and side table......so when the power goes off, I just sit around and wait for it to come back on. :lol: :lol: :lol:

We've got a few drafting tables still hanging around the place - we use them for layout conferences mostly, and print-collating tables. In the flat-file storage area in our basement, the rubber cut-mats from these tables are now employed as protective layers under which we flatten rolled-up plans for filing, while protecting them from any moisture (we had a leaking in-house drain pipe a few weeks ago - overhead in the basement - so having as-yet unfiled plans under cover was a good idea).

Does anyone out there in the Old-Timey World of Hand-Drafting have a railroad ruling pen? Twenty years ago, I could have still bought one new, but they were only sold in pairs (Why pairs? If you've got one, you don't need two.), and at $90(US) for the pair, I couldn't justify the expense for the hobby. So I just draw my parallel lines very carefully.

Geoffers

26th Jul 2007, 02:10 pm

just pulled out a container of 'Pelikan' Pulver for cleaning drawings; powdered pumice i think. i tried to attach a photo but it seems i need html - which i don't know - so no piccy.
i looked on 'Pelikan' site and guess what? they don't sell it anymore.

it's marked 4 shillings and 6 pence for the 125grams which seems very expensive for the 70s

hey Geoffers, that might work on your screen

dbroada

26th Jul 2007, 02:24 pm

it's marked 4 shillings and 6 pence for the 125grams which seems very expensive for the 70s
depends which end of the 70s. I started on less than £5/week but towards the end we had the "social contract cost of living threshold" where our wages went up each time inflation hit a certain figure. With all wages incresing this month, next months inflation figures would go above the threshold limit so all wages went up that month which meant......

I finished my apprentiship and got a pay rise each month for the next 6 months. :)

Even on £5 a week, 22,5p wasn't a great fortune though.

Geoffers

26th Jul 2007, 03:07 pm

i have just realised 4/6 must be before 1971 when we went decimal, ok 1960's then.

Geoffers are you really that old? why do i have to work beside you, you old git?

ReMark

26th Jul 2007, 05:21 pm

Got a 6H pencil in the drawer along with my 24" steel straightedge and a "burnisher" for use with Letraset (rub-off) transfer letters. I may even have one good J.S. Staedtler "Mars" 2H Lumograph pencil (pale blue lead) made in Germany in there somewhere too.

Alan Cullen

26th Jul 2007, 06:00 pm

oh ****......when I was in college, and returned to New Guinea on term holidays...and had to go into Dad's office.....back in 1967 (aged 17) say......I was on $68 (or there abouts) a week..........so I'm now a real dick?

Sorry, Dave.......:(

Vince0115

26th Jul 2007, 07:02 pm

Last night I dusted off one of my trusty slide rules (have 2). Yep, it still works; but I had to go read the manual (gasp!!) to remember how to do certain esoteric functions.

yedan

1st Aug 2007, 04:31 pm

oh man dyeline machines were the baine of my early drafting life, being the office jnr i got the job printing the copies for production, 10 copies of each drawing, all a1 and a2, i stank of ammonia for months untill we got a new jnr heheh

dbroada

1st Aug 2007, 04:37 pm

and aren't ammonia filled paper cuts lovely. :(

we had a print room that did that but as the junior I was the one most expected to help during busy or holiday periods.

Wozza

28th Aug 2007, 03:30 am

we had a print room that did that but as the junior I was the one most expected to help during busy or holiday periods.

Our Junior in one office was given a dozen or so floor plans, drawn in ink on linen and told 'print 2 copies of each, then fold them all up and leave them on the front desk'.

Do you know how difficult it is getting creases out of linen drawings..?

And the de-greaser that we used was called 'Pounce'. It's only $3.85 these days apparently. I worked at home for a couple of years doing workshop drawings and I ran out of the stuff. I couldn't find any locally so I ended up using talcum powder. My drawings smelt like a babies bum.

See this page for some nostalgia:

http://www.completeline.com/catalog.htm

CyberAngel

12th Sep 2007, 01:54 pm

At home I still have a drafting table. It must have been made in the 1950s: wooden legs, green linoleum (or something) on top, and one of those horizontal bars that slides up and down on wires (always thought that was some kind of magic).

CADken

12th Sep 2007, 02:21 pm

Mike from NS

10th Oct 2007, 03:10 pm

Last night I dusted off one of my trusty slide rules (have 2). Yep, it still works; but I had to go read the manual (gasp!!) to remember how to do certain esoteric functions.

How about the circular slide rules ! They made life easy and you could always go in the same direction. After a while we could get a "feel" what the numbers meant and what was a reasonable value. I must dig out my circular one from days gone by.

Mike:wink:

brassworks

10th Oct 2007, 03:12 pm

I've never seen or heard of a circular slide rule. Anybody got a picture of one to post?

Mike from NS

10th Oct 2007, 04:34 pm

I've never seen or heard of a circular slide rule. Anybody got a picture of one to post?

Mine is the Concise Alpha 4300 but I don't see it on this link. These are similar. I wore out the first one and have a second. It is always interesting to see people's reaction when they see it. They were really easy to use but you needed good eyesight:roll:

http://www.concise.co.jp/eng0731/circle01.html

Mike

Teeds

23rd Dec 2007, 05:40 am

Great thread!

I started on linen with ink in 1965. Ruling Pens and Crow Quill Lettering Pens ruled the day.

We did not start with mylar and plastic led until we worked on the DFW International Airport in the early 1970's.

Now as a historical preservation architect, I get to input the old plans into CAD.

It is amazing how tight they dimensioned layouts. I have found dimension strings in the 64ths of an inch in some sets.

Anyone remember the Add Feet? Of course you folks on metric may call it something else. I need to dig mine out and post a photo of it.

I still have a few tungsten tip ruling pens and a bunch of chisel cut crow quill tips as well. Lord only knows how many Rapidiographs I have.

I have been full time on CAD since the mid 80's, but once you learn to draft, you never really lose the touch.

Noahma

3rd Feb 2008, 11:37 pm

last year we finaly decided to retire our blueline machine lol. Big ole honking burnt umber machine. I hated when the person that ran the prints was out of the office, I had to run them. Talk about a hangover from the ammonia fumes. and yea, the papercuts from the chemically treated paper.

We decided to retire it after we could not find any parts for it anymore, we did have three machines in storage we used for parts.

two of our guys still do hand drafting, we have some very very old equipment that they rely on. including an architectural book we have for humor around the office that was printed in 1898

ReMark

4th Feb 2008, 12:09 pm

Anyone here ever use "pin bar" registration? Pre-punched sheets of mylar were attached to a thin, flat, stainless steel bar with raised "nubs" every 6 inches. It was the forerunner of "layers" in a manner of speaking.

brassworks

4th Feb 2008, 01:43 pm

Yep, I remember pin bar registration. I think I have a couple pin bars in the archives of my junk at home. The analogy to CAD layers is exactly correct, but CAD layers aren't subject to slipping out of alignment. Computer drafting has tons of advantages over hand drafting, but I do miss the heightened sense of art and planning that hand drafting always challenged me with.

Alan Cullen

4th Feb 2008, 01:51 pm

I used to be good at freehand lettering, that was my big thing. Couldn't letter if my life depended on it now, though. :(

Strix

4th Feb 2008, 02:17 pm

....

two of our guys still do hand drafting, we have some very very old equipment that they rely on. including an architectural book we have for humor around the office that was printed in 1898oo - do we get to see some scanned pages?

Noahma

5th Feb 2008, 04:13 am

oo - do we get to see some scanned pages?

I would have to see if I can grab a few of their sheets when they are not looking lol.

We have a few of our old blueline sets sitting around the office for memory sake. I actually do miss the light aroma of the ammonia from day to day.

I will see what I can grab tomorrow after I get this house out to permit.

Teeds

17th Feb 2008, 03:37 pm

two of our guys still do hand drafting, we have some very very old equipment that they rely on. including an architectural book we have for humor around the office that was printed in 1898

Title?

I have many old construction books, the oldest being from the 1860's. They are invaluable in restoring old buildings, which is what I do most of the time.

The oldest I have worked on is a 1895 adobe structure. Very interesting to try and get inside the heads of the people that built that one.

cadencesol

18th Feb 2008, 05:26 pm

I just don't beleive that someone still using their hand to draw Architectural drawing. There is so many options to make them digital format and use them for ever.
Is it not?

Geoffers

18th Feb 2008, 06:11 pm

I just don't beleive that someone still using their hand to draw Architectural drawing. There is so many options to make them digital format and use them for ever.
Is it not?

I have a college friend who still hand draws, and his work is immaculate in drafting and concept. He has dabbled - very lightly - in CAD and I have offered to tutor him in the basics but - it is not for him - he does not need it.

Actually he should have been an artist: painter or sculptor or even photographer. But, you are correct , I think he is a dying species in construction...

cadencesol

18th Feb 2008, 06:22 pm

Some days ago I worked with one of my client who is also using his hand for doing Structural drawing. I just saw the drawing the drawing is in perfect scale. There is total 100 of drawings A0 to A3 sizes, and after that he converted all the drawings into dwg format. But really he his doing a great job.

WVCE84

8th Mar 2008, 01:22 am

i found this at my office a while back. Someone had to tell me what it was.
4943

electric eraser

Noahma

8th Mar 2008, 03:20 am

i found this at my office a while back. Someone had to tell me what it was.
4943

electric eraser

everyone in our office has a couple of those lol. Mine works decently, and it will erase ink off of plots too

there are still a few places that sell the erasers, several different kinds too

chrisdarmanin

8th Mar 2008, 08:36 am

lol electric eraser! i used to use an eraser shield but i think they were quite common...

ReMark

8th Mar 2008, 01:11 pm

I worked for a medium size engineering firm for three years and every Christmas we would have a company sponsored dinner. Once the meal was finished, and before the band began to play and the dancing started, they would have a slide show (remember those?). Pictures of all the employees "on the job" would be shown. When it came to slides of the drafting department it turned out everyone of the draftsmen was holding an electric eraser when our pictures were taken. Someone in the audience yelled out, "Doesn't anyone in the drafting department know how to use a pencil?" That got more than a few laughs.

WVCE84

11th Mar 2008, 12:29 am

not exactly pre-CAD but still from the past
4969
a 4gb tape

chrisdarmanin

11th Mar 2008, 08:45 am

is that something like the microdrive on the spectrum?

chrisdarmanin

11th Mar 2008, 08:47 am

by the way... i was wondering... did spectrum have autocad?

WVCE84

12th Mar 2008, 12:33 am

is that something like the microdrive on the spectrum?

I don't know. I found it in a box with some other old computer equipment.

halfcracked

12th Mar 2008, 04:05 am

oh ****......when I was in college, and returned to New Guinea on term holidays...and had to go into Dad's office.....back in 1967 (aged 17)

Got me beat by 17 years there alan - I was born in 67

and aren't ammonia filled paper cuts lovely. :(

we had a print room that did that but as the junior I was the one most expected to help during busy or holiday periods.

nothing beats the cuts you'd get in the webbing between thumb & index fingers - we had a blue print machine in my curren't office untill an amonia line broke & gassed out the whole 3 story office building. Building Management insisted we get rid of it. lucky we were mostly cad by then.
I started working on a huge beast that was about 10' tall & could fun a print in a second flat.

At home I still have a drafting table. It must have been made in the 1950s: wooden legs, green linoleum (or something) on top, and one of those horizontal bars that slides up and down on wires (always thought that was some kind of magic).
ahhh yes the paralell bar:D I have used those way too much....
That is untill I bought this:

Julie@Integra

1st Apr 2008, 09:41 pm

...Computer drafting has tons of advantages over hand drafting, but I do miss the heightened sense of art and planning that hand drafting always challenged me with.

That's what I often miss about on-the-board drafting: the "art" of it.

I can still put my artistic stamp on CAD drawings by how they're organized... but it can be fairly easily duplicated. There was no doubt when looking at my old drawings -- back in the day -- that it was mine.
...........

I remember the mylar and sepia paper; pin registration... and the throat-burning, eye-watering ammonia emanating from the print room.

I still have some blue-leaded pencils and other ancient tools of the trade, including my electric eraser. I'll never part with them. ;)

**sigh** Ahhh, the good ol' days. (I must admit, though, I'd never forfeit copy-and-paste to go backwards.... I don't have the patience anymore.)

WVCE84

9th Apr 2008, 12:09 am

I have not added any pictures for a while so...
5333
eraser shield

5334
I'm not 100% sure, but I think it is some kind of offset tool

Alan Cullen

9th Apr 2008, 12:36 am

WVCE84,

The second piccie is a Leroy lettering gizmo. If you look at my piccies on page 2 you'll see how it works. :)

brassworks

9th Apr 2008, 12:47 am

A very early model of this lettering stylus thingie was shaped very much the same, but instead of the Leroy pen being fixed into it, a little ink-filled cup that tapered down into a pen nib was inserted. It pre-dates my Leroy days; it must have been a lot of fun to fill those little cups with ink with a minimum of drops and spilling.

ReMark

9th Apr 2008, 10:52 am

Alan Cullen

9th Apr 2008, 11:10 am

I've still got my Leroy lettering set, plus all my old manual drafting gear. Thank god I don't have to use them anymore. :twisted:

Dipali

9th Apr 2008, 11:11 am

Still have my original Leroy lettering set and all the guides. We also used to have a much larger set of guides for doing out title sheets. The text size was up to 2". The size of the Leroy stylus was huge!

Anyone have an old lettering template? The type with the punched out letters that you traced?

Yes, I do have it somewhere in my private collection.
we used to call it 'STENCIL'. It used to come in varied sizes. the most common being used were 2mm, 3mm & 5mm within the drawing and 8mm, 12mm for teh titleblock part.
I have intresting experiance to share about it.
when I was studying in first year of architecture degree course, one of my senior friend asked me to help her with submission work (we always used to help with each other in drafting or modeling part) & she wanted me to do stanciling in her working drawings for her. I had not tried it before & bcs i was afraid of messing her drawings, I declined. but than I thought to myself, I will have to do something about it. so in the next semister for one of my assignment of histroy i was documenting architecture of historical place & i had to do 13 - A2 size sheets with detail write ups, so i decided to do it with stencils for a practice. when I started it it was taking me about 5hrs. to do one sheet, but after few sheets I got the hang of it & I could finish one sheet in 2 hrs. And when everybody at Uni sow it they, were amazed & were 'like have u gone mad?':shock:
Also when I started working in an office we had those very large A0 size drawing boards, & some times I had to work on very large drawings. and when i have ot do some stenciling at the top of the sheets like notes & stuff. it was very difficult to reach to it. so i had developed habit of doing it upside down from the other side of the drawing board.:twisted:

ReMark

9th Apr 2008, 11:23 am

Upside down and backwards, in ink, with a "# 000" size pen. That's how we would draft existing topography for our highway and sewer design sheets (mylar). Then we'd flip them over and all the proposed linework would be put in with thicker pens (#2, #3) and Leroy lettering on the front. However, all the existing topography had to be labeled on the front of the sheet, in freehand, with a slant, using both uppercase and lowercase letters. There could be as many as 200 sheets.

I got so used to being able to read/write upside down lettering that I could reproduce it at will when sketching out an idea, with callouts, to a co-worker sitting across a table from me.

WVCE84

9th Apr 2008, 10:28 pm

WVCE84,

The second piccie is a Leroy lettering gizmo. If you look at my piccies on page 2 you'll see how it works. :)

Cool, I must have missed that one the first time around.

BM Drafting

7th May 2008, 01:13 pm

I was in a combined Year 11 and 12 class doing Graphics...
I was in Year 12,
We had a final exam and most of the year 11's were packing it...

We had drawing boards with little steel clips (sping steel)

While loading up my plans i lifted up the clip and praaaaang...
it snapped in half flew across the room and hit the black board...

Not thinking i turned to my mate and said

Spring stell my A%&....

a little louder then expected...
my teacher was rolling on the floor laughing...
if i see him down the street even today, he's like remember that time...

ha ha ha ha

Long story short, the rest of the exam was very relaxed with class amtes quitely chuckling away...

Since we were reminicing...

Doug_P

3rd Jul 2008, 09:47 pm

1972 it was in jr. high school, a 1/3 semester of mechanical drawing. We had a pencil sharpener that would cut just the wood off of the pencil. Then you would use a pointer to put the point on the lead.

I also remember not to long ago going into an office when cad first came out and watching the pen plotter. I thought that was awsome.

Rickard5

5th Jul 2008, 11:59 am

I still use my Leroy EVERY DAY, I got that Knotted up fingers from holding the bug :) and the Hunch on my back from doing hours and Hours of LEROY every day. I wish I could find a LEROY font that will plot from Autocad to my pen plotter with real Rapidograph pens, and mimic LEROY, so I could Quit doing it by hand :) and yes I still use Rapidograph pens in my HP Pen Plotters :)

ReMark

5th Jul 2008, 02:12 pm

A long time ago there was a Leroy font available for AutoCAD. I'm sure that with a bit of sleuthing it could be uncovered.

Rickard5

6th Jul 2008, 07:47 am

Remark
Doug found the Leroy font for me :) and it looks kool now comes the hard part, I got to put together a Standard of font Size to pen Size :) I'm going to be playing with my plotter and pens for hours tonight :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)

Doug_P

6th Jul 2008, 09:34 pm

I'd be willing to send this font to anyone that wants it. Is there a place where I can upload it to the forum?

Teeds

14th Aug 2008, 04:35 am

I'd be willing to send this font to anyone that wants it. Is there a place where I can upload it to the forum?

Boy do I remember Leroy. Talk about cramps, the bug was difficult to hold for sure.

I would love to get the font ...

teeds at whiterockstudio dot com

Rickard5

14th Aug 2008, 11:09 am

Boy do I remember Leroy.
REMEMBER ??? you mean no one else still uses LEROY? God I've been searching or years for a Leroy font for years. Ohh and you cant complain about cramps until you hunch in the back from 5-7 hour Leroying sessions :)

ReMark

14th Aug 2008, 11:14 am

I still have my original boxed Leroy set with "stylus". A bit dusty but if the power ever goes out permanently I could still create a darn good drawing with that, a few technical pens, a couple of triangles and a "T" square!

Doug_P

14th Aug 2008, 04:08 pm

TeedsQuote:
Originally Posted by Doug_P http://www.cadtutor.net/forum/images/buttons_cadtutor/viewpost.gif (http://www.cadtutor.net/forum/showthread.php?p=159963#post159963)
I'd be willing to send this font to anyone that wants it. Is there a place where I can upload it to the forum?

Boy do I remember Leroy. Talk about cramps, the bug was difficult to hold for sure.

I would love to get the font ...

teeds at whiterockstudio dot com

It's on it's way.

Rickard, How did the font workout?

Teeds

26th Aug 2008, 10:17 pm

It's on it's way.

Rickard, How did the font workout?

Doug_P:

If you sent it, I may have accidentally deleted it. I get 250~300 spam email a day.

Please resend it and be sure and write CAD font in the title.

Tony

Doug_P

26th Aug 2008, 11:07 pm

Tony,
I sent it again.

Teeds

26th Aug 2008, 11:59 pm

Tony,
I sent it again.

Thanks Doug!

It is safely downloaded to my hard drive!

I may have to change the font in the current project I am working on. It will be like old times!

I have a set of templates somewhere that are from 60 to 400, a frog and a bunch of pens ... I did throw out the double arm drafting machine though.

Rickard5

12th Sep 2008, 12:20 am

I have a set of templates somewhere that are from 60 to 400, a frog and a bunch of pens ... I did throw out the double arm drafting machine though.
Teeds If you have some old K&E prns I'd be interested in buying them! I use K&E pens in my Plotters. I HATE HATE HATE Kooh-i-nor Mickey Meter Junk. I'm always on the Hunt for Real K&E Pens :)

Coosbaylumber

30th Nov 2008, 03:50 pm

Back about 1975 or so, a firm that I was with at the time was using a Wang computer (don't remember the software) and we had a big flatbed plotter. It would only work good in pencil. Thus we had to do the work on plan paper, in pencil, then when finished get the job photographed and printed on to mylar. Main thing I remember was that the flatbed plotter was rather large and slow and consumed most of an entire room in the building.

About 1980, I was off work again, and applied to some newpaper classified. There were like 50 applicants, and I was only one who knew how to use a keyboard. Last one to be reviewed, but got the job anyway. Circa 1980, we used home brew software on a Alpha-Micro computer, and Calcomp plotters and digitizers.

Both of the above before the general release of Autocad or the IBM home computer.

Wm.

ReMark

30th Nov 2008, 03:54 pm

When I mentioned working on blow-back mylars, reverse printed to a coworker the other day he just had this weird blank look on his face. Then I hit him with pin-bar registration and he ran from the room screaming. Poor guy.

ReMark

30th Nov 2008, 03:55 pm

skipsophrenic

30th Nov 2008, 11:08 pm

Then I hit him with pin-bar registration and he ran from the room screaming. Poor guy.

LOL :lol::lol::lol:

Coosbaylumber

1st Dec 2008, 01:59 am

Remark...

I began in the Civil Engineering world back in the 1960's and was quite common to show all "Existing" linework on backside of a mylar, and the "proposed" on front side. We did this as this permitted erasures, without damaging older, just done work my another person.

Wm.

ReMark

1st Dec 2008, 11:59 am

Coos: Yep, same here. I was used to doing this for sewer plan and profile sheets. Plus we had to freehand letter all the existing and Leroy in all the proposed items so there was a clear distinction between the two. The existing topo was taken from contour maps prepared by an aerial surveying firm. Had to trace over their work to produce our individual plan and profile sheets using a light table. Many hours of back breaking, tedious work. I got so used to working with a reverse image I can sit across from someone and read their newspaper upside-down and I can also write upside-down (right to left) so the person can read the words in a normal fashion. What a great skill to possess!

Coosbaylumber

3rd Dec 2008, 04:06 pm

ReMark....

I used the double sides of the mylar sheets to advantage. As one side had all the new ink (proposed) on it, I then would just grab a bottle of Formula 409 and hose everything new off.Wipedown with a sponge, and mount the dried mylar up in the plotter and go. With out Pre Autodesk software, it was actually faster to just go in and plot a whole new side in ink than to fix what was shown. The grids for the profile was on backside, so they did not get affected, and new work was shown on front then, in fresh ink.

One firm I knew used the PIN system. They were quite proud of it too. But, when the time came forward on the caution involved, it was simplier and faster to ignore it, and hope no one complained as to some change then. The PIN system was gone before another 1/2 year was over.

Wm.

rkent

8th Dec 2008, 09:24 pm

I started with Koh-i-nor tech pens but quickly became a big fan of the Mars-Staedtler series. Worked a lot with triple and quad "0" pens. Had to be really careful cleaning them. Anyone here remember using ultrasonic cleaners?

I still have my ultrasonic cleaner and lots of the manual drafting equipment. I have some cursive leroy lettering templates, some for Iso drawings and the usual standard ones. Lots of plastic templates and the little stamper to put dimples on them for ink.
I have some wooden pencils that say "Made in American Zone Germany" on them. They are in a neat tin box with a paper liner on the inside, don't remember the brand off hand.

ReMark

9th Dec 2008, 12:05 am

I have some really nice German pencils I refuse to even sharpen. Farber?

ReMark

9th Dec 2008, 05:56 pm

Found some more pencils...6H! Made in the U.S.A. by L&C Hardtmuth, Inc. with the letters "KOH-I-NOOR" on them and a couple of 2H J.S. Staedtler Mars-Lumograph made in Germany. Who knows what the Lumograph pencil was used for? Pssst....I do.

rkent

9th Dec 2008, 06:17 pm

I thought Lumograph was just a type of graphite lead made by Staedtler, used where ever you would use graphite lead.

ReMark

9th Dec 2008, 06:25 pm

Ding, dong...you're wrong.

Try again please.

It's 3 for $1.

Next guess?

rkent

9th Dec 2008, 06:29 pm

I thought Lumograph was just a type of graphite lead made by Staedtler, used where ever you would use graphite lead.

A trip through the 'interweb' seems to suggest that it is just a type of graphite.

Perhaps you used it for a special purpose back in the day but it is just a lead pencil.

Do tell.

ReMark

9th Dec 2008, 06:32 pm

rkent, you're disappointing me. Do I have to wake up rickard?

I'll give you a hint. The lead is colored and it ain't black.

You've got one shot left. Make it count. Ready....aim....fire!

rkent

9th Dec 2008, 06:34 pm

Noahma

9th Dec 2008, 10:28 pm

Blue lead was used for construction lines because the blueprint machines didn't see it well or at all, so we didn't have to erase the blue construction lines after inking. I don't think lumograph was exclusively blue, again check the interweb if you don't believe me.

we actually got rid of our blue line machine a couple years ago. We could no longer find parts to keep the ole beast running lol. I miss the smell of ammonia in the morning while running a few sets :?

rkent

9th Dec 2008, 11:46 pm

I have some really nice German pencils I refuse to even sharpen. Farber?

Faber is the brand name. All this talk of the old days has me planning to get my box of drafting supplies out of the attic and play with them for a while. I will take a photo of anything that seems interesting, if anything does.

ReMark

10th Dec 2008, 12:03 am

Hmmmm....seems my last post went missing in action.

Pencil number 2886 by Mars-Staedtler was indeed a blue-line pencil. Not only did it not reproduce when sent through a blue line (ammonia based) printer but it was also invisible when photocopied. The nice thing was you could ink over the blue lines as they were not greasy like the Prismacolor pencils. rkent is our winner. Give the man a stuffed trout. Congrats.

Coosbaylumber

10th Dec 2008, 04:28 pm

ReMark....

I may be wong, but sort of remember the Lumo series of leads to be made of some sort of Plasticky material. Used them on Mylar, for lead pencil often smeared. I remember they were difficult to sharpen when in a coffee grinder. We had yellow and blue pencils. Blue would not show up on a blueprint, whereas yellow showed up with a force harder than black pencil. Had to use some sort of special white eraser to remove the lines or text too.

Here in California, we had the major blueprint places get rid of their Ozalid type machines and go to the dry OCE' styles about four years ago. Said the ammonia was hazardous, for operators were not disposing of it properly, but just dumping it out.

I don't like the new OCE' machines for Repro's as there is a gloss on older linen, and it makes for a speckled spot on the final paper, or will not let light penetrate on through, and thus pick up work done on BOTH side of a sheet. The newer machines also ignor colored pencils too.

Wm.

Teeds

27th Dec 2008, 09:17 pm

I started with Koh-i-nor tech pens but quickly became a big fan of the Mars-Staedtler series. Worked a lot with triple and quad "0" pens. Had to be really careful cleaning them. Anyone here remember using ultrasonic cleaners?

I never had trouble cleaning them, but had a devil of a time getting them back together.

I still have an ultrasonic cleaner. It is on a shelf on the back porch.

Biscuits

6th Jul 2010, 06:54 pm

My post isn't about drafting equipment, but of a print I discovered a few years back. I was a CNC programmer/operator for a wood trophy company using a 2 1/2 axis wood router. Programing was done without the use of a computer and took ages to get a program right. As I slowly learned Autocad in school and at home, I convinced the big boss to bring in a Cad station for programming purposes which eventually led to me becoming the company drafter. The previous drafter only worked a couple hours a week and was about to retire (he was in his late 70's). Ray Hansen was the man's name and Ray was the original owner and developer of the company in 1957. He had sold the company to a much larger organzation in the 70's and retained a position as drafter & advisor. When Ray finally hung up his drafting tools and I began the transition to the electronic age, my first duty was to convert his old office and drawing station into one I could use.
As I cleaned out his desk, I discover an old print stuck way back behind a drawer. The paper looked to be made of the same material that grocery sacks are made of and had a date of "1947" on it.
When I showed it to Ray, he remembered the print and told me it was of an engine part for a B29 bomber being manufactured at the Martin Bomber plant in Omaha. He was very pleased to get it back and I enjoyed the idea of having a piece of history in my hands. Turns out, Ray had been a graphic illustator during the war and is even credited for creating the nose art on General Jimmy Dolittles plane.
Well that's my long winded story....and I'm stickin' to it!

brassworks

7th Jul 2010, 03:52 pm

That's really neat to know! Thanks for posting your story. I'm going to send it to a friend of mine, a WWII veteran who flew for the RAF and the Polish Air Force. He still has an active pilot's license, although he does not pilot anymore. He has just published a WWII novel about the efforts of an American Army pilot charged with keeping three new P-40 fighters out of the hands of the Japanese on the Malaya peninsula in Dec 1941-Jan 1942.

Biscuits

7th Jul 2010, 04:37 pm

Glad you enjoyed it!

miscille

24th Oct 2012, 08:33 pm

I remenber the days of tracers....still remember a funny story happened a long time ago.....

One of the drafties wrote "6000 wide driveway" on the plan (in his sloppy manner).....the tracer typed "good wide driveway"......and that got missed on the check.....and went out to contract.......:lol:

THAT STILL HAPPENS - a senior tech here put 'LOL' in the corner of a legend in a set of 120 drawings or so, 50 some sets were printed, no one has yet to comment on his addition and the building is going into commissioning, so much for drawing checks LOL

miscille

24th Oct 2012, 08:36 pm

I remenber the days of tracers....still remember a funny story happened a long time ago.....

One of the drafties wrote "6000 wide driveway" on the plan (in his sloppy manner).....the tracer typed "good wide driveway"......and that got missed on the check.....and went out to contract.......:lol:

One of our senior techs did a 'where's waldo thingy' - he added LOL to his standard legend, on the front of a 120 page drawing set, 50 sets were printed and no one has yet to catch it or question it, this was only last year. So much for drawing checks LMAO

PotGuy

13th Feb 2013, 12:59 pm

I might be dating myself here but I used ruling pens at one time and still have one or two hanging around. Don't know why I can't part with them even though they haven't been used in many years.

Sentimental value?

ReMark

13th Feb 2013, 01:07 pm

PotGuy

13th Feb 2013, 03:32 pm

Just had an intern complain to me about how awful it was using AutoCAD LT to create a drawing. I went back to my desk and took out my triangles, drafting pencil, erasing shield, compass, circle template and a sheet of vellum. I dropped them on his desk and said, "Try doing the drawing with these instead" and walked away. I should have given him the ruling pens and my set of Koh-i-noor technical pens too.

Well, that nearly led to a laugh in the Office!

I've never had experience working with AutoCAD LT, but I'm suprised that an Intern would complain.

Hopefully it showed him he was lucky to be using the Software at all!

I've used all items specified, but what's a Vellum? A specialised drafting paper?

Par from Ruling pens.

ReMark

13th Feb 2013, 03:44 pm

Vellum

"Modern imitation or "paper vellum" is made from plasticized cotton. Usually translucent, paper vellum in various sizes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paper_size) is often used in applications where tracing is required, such as architectural plans (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Architectural_plan)."

Not to be confused with rice paper or tracing paper.