Setting scale for drawing

[Dicky_boy]

Can anyone tell me basicly how to create a drawing in AC 2004 using a set scale. I am a brand new user and know the basics on how to create a drawing and what the tools are and do but I need to create a block plan for my house and it needs to be in 1:200 scale. Is it better to set the scale before drawing or just draw it anyway you want and can and then set the scale when you print. I am self taught but haven't figured out the scale thing yet! I have looked in the Help but can't understand the lingo as they think we all got taught in Tech School or something similar!
:lol:
I am looking for someone who has the patience to explain it in a manner I will understand! Help and understanding would be greatly appreciated!

[Tiger]

Help and understanding you'll find in loads here - basically because we've all been there :P

First off: Always draw in scale 1:1!!! Golden rule numero uno in AutoCAD!

All the scaling should be done in the end, when the drawing is done. I would use the Layout mode and add viewports there and then assign a scale to the Viewport.

uhmm..... are you familiar with Viewports? hmm...I'll search some and see if I can find the FAQ for it...

[Tiger]

First question: how do you know how long it is while you are drawing it?

You input coordinates while you draw, this is one example - the @ means that you give coordinates relative to where you started the line.

LINE Specify first point:
Specify next point or [Undo]: @200,0

Specify next point or [Undo]:

I usually work with Polar lines and when one of those pop up, I can just enter the length required.

Second Question: how do you work out scale factors?

The way I do it is to draw everything in Model Space and then plot the drawing from Paper Space (Paper Space = the Layout tab at the bottom of the ACAD window) where you can draw a Viewport (which functions as a window into Model Space). Via the Viewport Toolbar you can set a scale to the viewport and via the Page Setup Manager (File) you can set the paper to A4. Viola! Plot away :)

Remember - this is my way of doing things - there are as many ways as there are Cad Operators :)

Ask again if something is not clear :thumbsup:

[Alan Cullen]

But, Dicky_boy,

Respond here on this thread. Members don't like getting PMs asking questions that can be asked here, where all members can see the answers and all learn. :lol:

I'll follow this thread. :D

[Dicky_boy]

So do I understand this correctly? If I want to draw a line which needs to be 5 mt long I would start my polar line at the first click then put the value at 5 then enter and I would then have a line @ 5mts theoretically being that there is no scale allocated 5 is just 5 units?

[Alan Cullen]

There are a couple of ways to do it.

Pick the start point, then type @5,0 (thats a relative coord).

or

Pick the start point, then type @5<90 (thats a relative distance/angle).

The distances are whatever. 1 acad drawing unit in model space = 1 whatever you want it to be (m, mm, ft, miles, light years)

What is important is the plot scale you set when that issue comes along.

[Tiger]

So do I understand this correctly? If I want to draw a line which needs to be 5 mt long I would start my polar line at the first click then put the value at 5 then enter and I would then have a line @ 5mts theoretically being that there is no scale allocated 5 is just 5 units?

Yep, that would be it. I usually draw in millimeters, but each to his own 8)

[Dicky_boy]

hi Tiger

Your lat suggestion about drawing in 1 to 1 and the polar suggestion certainly answered one of my long unanswered questions! So I now know how to draw a line to a specific measurement which is fantanstic! Always wondered how they knew how long a line would be and where to cut it off!

Ok next question for anyone out there! If I draw an item regardless of what it is, I want to plot it at say 1 to 200 scvale to an A4 sheet on my plotter, how to I go about it? I know there has been talk of scale factors and thought that all I would have to do is find where that info is in the settings and just put 1 in one box and 200 in the other and hey presto press print and away we go! But nah it wasn't meant to be that easy! So how do we arrive at a scale factor and what do we do with it? Answers anyone?

Many thanks

Dicky_boy

[Dicky_boy]

Hi Allen

Where in the settings do we find the units to change? I have only found something that says 1 unit = 1 millimetre and there is nothing about being able to change those units to say 10 millimetres = 1 metre

[Alan Cullen]

Doesn't work that way. 1 acad drawing unit equals anything, but only 1 of anything. So 1 acad unit cannot equal 10 mm. That issue comes into plot scale.

Listen, mate, can I get back to you shortly? Things have got a bit hectic here, Tiger has another problem which I have to sort out now. Be back soon. :D

[SLW210]

Format>Units and Format>Text Style is where you can set up your units and dimension styles.

Try reading through these tutorials, maybe they will help.

ISO PAPER SIZES (http://www.cadtutor.net/tutorials/autocad/iso-paper-sizes.php)

Paper Space (http://www.cadtutor.net/tutorials/autocad/paper-space-exercise.php)

[Dicky_boy]

Hey Tiger

Did you read my latest post about trying to set a scale of 1:200?

Regards Dicky_boy

[Dicky_boy]

Hi Allen

Please see my latest post about trying to sacle a drawing

[Alan Cullen]

Once you have drawn your drawing in model space, you need to set up a layout tab. In the layout tab you set up your standard drawing sheet at 1:1. Then create a viewport within the drawing sheet. Select the viewport and go to viewport properties, in properties set the viewport scale to 1:200. Then move that part of model space you can see through the viewport until you get the part of model space you want to show up inside the viewport. Do not zoom in and out during this. Once you are happy with what is showing up in the viewport, select it again and go back to properties. This time lock the viewport. Now you can zoom in and out. To plot the layout, plot it at a scale of 1:1.

I just gotta get off my butt and write a FAQ for doing all this.

[Dicky_boy]

hi and thanks for the link to the tutorial. I tried what the tutorial said to do and it even listed a few of the more popularr scales so I thought I had it sussed but when I use the same scale factors my drawing doesn't appear in the page preview or it is half of the page or only partially showing. God this is HARD to do!!! Considering I can put a simple drawing together but this scale thing is driving me to the point where I am just about ready to give up drawing it in AutoCad and just draw it with a scale rule and be done with it. I am very frustrated to say the least and can't believe how hard it is just to plot a drawing at a certain scale. Crikey you wouldn't want to be lousy at Math would you?

[Alan Cullen]

Believe me BD, getting used to the scaling is very easy, once you get over the mental block. Maybe this will make you feel better, I work in metres, not mm. So the way I set up plot scale is different to how others who use mm set up plot scale. When I have to plot a mm drawing I go through mental breakdown.

Try the inverses of the scales, and see how they preview. BTW, Tiger is on her way to help me here. :lol:

[Tiger]

Ok, here's what I do - step by step:

1, do the drawing in Model Space in 1:1 scale

2, go to the Layout Tab, go file -> Page Setup manager -> Modify and there choose the plotter you want, set that you want to plot Extents, choose the paper size you want, and set the scale to 1:1

3, pull up the viewport toolbar (right click on the grey area next to the toolbars -> ACAD -> Viewport

4, draw a viewport

5, doubleclick inside the viewport, Pan and Scroll until you have the part of the drawing you want visible (don't worry about the scale right now)

6, doubleclick outside the viewport to de-activate it - click on the viewport to mark it and in the Viewport Toolbar there is a area where you can type your desired scale.

7, While the viewport is marked , rightclick on the viewport line - and choose Display Locekd -> yes

8, Go , go Plot!

This is my way - there are many others, but this works for me.

[Dicky_boy]

Thanks for the info Al but unfortunately I could only understand and do up to point 3 and then I wasa totally lost. It was way over my head! Sorry for being a pain! Points 3 to 7 I could not undrestand. Sorry (again)

[Alan Cullen]

How long can you wait? It looks like I gotta write a FAQ on this. :roll:

Maybe NBC or RIGA will come along and help out here. Hedge is also here, but he is a totally different kettle of fish. :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

SOMEONE should come in and help VERY shortly. You all hear that? :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Tiger]

ok, I'll take it from point 3:

3, Look at the picture below - right click where the red spot is. Then you choose ACAD and in the next list you find Viewport, click that and you should get the Viewport Toolbar.

4, draw a viewport - using either the button on the Viewport Toolbar or tyoe MView or go View - Viewports - 1 viewport

5, doubleclick inside the viewport, Pan and zoom until you have the part of the drawing you want visible (don't worry about the scale right now)

6, doubleclick outside the viewport to de-activate it - click on the viewport line to mark it (the blue dots show up in the corners) and in the Viewport Toolbar there is a area where you can type your desired scale - it should say Scale to Fit right now - click there, and type your scale (1:200 or something)

7, While the viewport is marked , rightclick on the viewport line - and choose Display Locekd -> yes

8, Go , go Plot!


BTW - Dicky, where are you from??

[riga]

This is an explenation I've heard from peaple who are used to teach at coureses for students that see autocad for the first time.

As you have learned, in model space you draw with one unit at your choice: meters, millimiters, inches, ect. This it depend on your preferences and on your needs.

But when you go to paper space (Layouts) you have to deal with paper formats, and here Autocad gives you only to choice to measure/define the dimensions of your support: millimiters or inches.

Now, in Autocad there are often more solutions to get the same result, but what you have to do to get a proper scaled print is to correctly relate the drawing unit you have choosen to draw in model space, the unit you have choosen for the paper support (mm or inches) and the scale you want to print.

So it is important that you first think what is the relation between your drawing units (now let's say for example meters) and the paper space dimensions (as we have choosen a metric unit in model space we are going to choose mm for layouts) and in this case the relation is the following:

1 drawing unit = 1 meters = 1000 mm = 1000 paper space units
Just keep that in mind and go ahead

When in "setup page" you have choosen your paper format (for example A4) it will be rappresented in paper space in millimeters (or inches) so 210 x 297 mm.

After you have created a viewport you can select it and in the properties window (or in viewport toolbar as suggested by Tiger) you can set the viewport scale in the "standard scale" cell or in the "costum scale" cell:
now at this point you will notice that, otherwise your model space reference unit is millimeter, something loks wrong. This depend from the relation between model space reference unit and the unit of your paper format dimensions wich is millimeter in our example.

To "fix" this you have 2 main ways:

1 > in the "setup page manager" in the plot scale you set the relation between model space reference unit and the unit of your paper format dimensions, so if your unit was meter
you will set 1000 mm = 1 unit
At this point your paper space will be scaled with this scale factor and yo will need to adapt your viewport to the new aspect of your paper format, but then you will be able to choose the viewport scale exactly how you want it printed, so if you want a 1:200 scale just select the viewport and itroduce that value in the costum scale cell and print

This is a method that I don't like that much and will not suggest to a beginner, but is a way to do the deal.

2> > The way I raccomend is to not change the plot scale in "setup page manager" and leave it to 1:1 (1 mm = 1 unit).
Then to get the right scaled print you will need to correct the scale factor of your viewport when you choose the factor scale, and to do it just do the following:
multiply the factor scale you want to print by the relation between the unit of your paper format dimensions and model space reference unit
so if paper format unit is mm and your drawing unit was meter and that relation is 1000:1,
and if you want print with a scale 1:200 (=0.005) then just multiply
0.005 X 1000 = 5
Now select the viewport and 5 is the value that you are have to insert in the costum scale cell
Well, I've started this post with the intention to put things in a simple way, but I think that due to my lack of ability in writing in a simple and clear way I'ven't reached my goal. I hope somebody can explain what I meant.

Alan, Tiger your help is needed :oops: :?

[Alan Cullen]

Hang on mate, Tiger and I are editing an FAQ, I want her to stay focussed, be there shortly. :twisted: :lol:

[riga]

No problem mate. Anyone can try to clean up what I wrote. I just hope my post will not confuse our Dicky_boy

[Alan Cullen]

Nah, mate.

You just contributed so much data to me to write this FAQ. Thanks a bunch. I understood exactly what you were getting at, and I really do appreciate your help. :D :D

I guess I'll try that one tomorrow night. Tiger gave up on that FAQ I was trying to get her to sort out. Maybe you can talk to her and give her some "Dutch Courage". :twisted:

[Tiger]

'Dutch Courage'?? From a Swiss?? :?

I know that Sweden and Switzerland is often mistaken - especially by french (the whole Suede and Suisse thing) but Switzerland and Holland?? strange mate..real strange

[Alan Cullen]

"Dutch Courage", mate, Aussie term, get a brick inta ya. get some guts, be game, try something new, overcome whatever.

Back to the jungle. :lol: :lol: :twisted:

[Dicky_boy]

Hi Riga

So basically you are saying that you can't even print the drawing unless you create one of these viewport thingies! I have seen the viewport listing in the Menu at the top of the page. I have also drawn a drawing using 1 to 1 units and wish to plot at 1:200 scale but have not had any sucess yet obviously. If you have to create on of these viewport things how do you do it in simple and easy to understand. At work (where I taught myself Auto Cad) I don't have to print to a scale so it is easy as I just choose the option of fit to page.

[Alan Cullen]

You can plot straight from model space, it's just not the recommended way to do it. Follow the following steps:

1. Open the plot dialogue window

3217

2. Under Printer/plotter, select the plotter to use.
3. Under paper size, select the paper size to use.
4. Under Plot style table (RHS, top), select the .ctb file to use.
5. Under drawing orientation, select landscape or portrait.
6. Under Plot scale, select 1:200, or just type in 1 and 0.2 as shown above.
7. Under Plot offset, tick centre the plot.
8. Under Plot area, select window, then pick the window in the drawing you want to plot.
9. Hit the preview button to see what will plot.
10. if you are happy with the preview, then hit the OK button.

[riga]

As Alan said is not raccomended to plot from model space, and surely is not raccomended to LEARN do it that way.
Layouts allow you to print on the same drawing with different scale without changing your model (that will remain a 1:1 drawing) and gives you a lot of others advantages (wich you will need sometimes to learn).
Anyway, if you decide to print from model space you will need to apply the "rule" to correct the scale factor to the "plot scale" (instead of the "costum scale" for the viewports).
So if you want to print a 1:200 plan and you have choosen cm as your refference unit to draw in model space you will set your plot scale to 1:20 (1 cm = 10 mm > 1:200 x 10 = 1:20)

[GE13579]

Hi Riga

So basically you are saying that you can't even print the drawing unless you create one of these viewport thingies! I have seen the viewport listing in the Menu at the top of the page. I have also drawn a drawing using 1 to 1 units and wish to plot at 1:200 scale but have not had any sucess yet obviously. If you have to create on of these viewport things how do you do it in simple and easy to understand. At work (where I taught myself Auto Cad) I don't have to print to a scale so it is easy as I just choose the option of fit to page.

In Layout, type MVIEW, then stretch a window to whatever size you want. Next, highlight the viewport and right click >> properties. Lock the viewport and set the scale accordingly, 1:200 in this case. Then, you should be able to double click within the viewport and pan, or double click outside the viewport (then select it) and stretch it, to show your drawing.