LT Extender

[LCE]

From http://www.lt-extender.de/LT-Extender/downloads/englisch/doc/LT-Extender-en.pdf




What about the legal situation when using LT-Extenders – or: is LT-Extender legal ?
The clear answer is : YES !


This is really two questions: "Is LT-Extender violating any laws by providing its features ?", and "Will the user
violate any laws when using LT-Extender ?" Almost certainly not ! Is LT-Extender violating any Autodesk
license agreements ? Not according to the opinions of some highly respected experts in the field of software
copyright.
LT-Extender is completely based on own technologies of the author TM-CAD Engineering Torsten Moses.
Both the LTE Kernel system and the LT-Extender technologies are explicitely not violating any copyrights of
Autodesk in any way, nor they are breaking any paragraphs declared in the user's AutoCAD© or AutoCAD©


LT license contract, regardless wether US or German laws are underlying. Additionally, many of the license
contract's paragraphs are very disputed under European rights …
The US copyright related laws know about "Reverse Engineering" that is legal under defined conditions. The
main condition claims that any files and data under 'foreign' copyrights (in this case: under Autodesks
copyright on AutoCAD© and AutoCAD© LT) may not be manipulated in any way. Exactly this will absolutely
not happen in any way by either LTE and LT-Extender !


Neither LTE nor LT-Extender are manipulating any AutoCAD© and/or AutoCAD© LT files in any way;
additionally, neither LTE nor LT-Extender are manipulating the effects or internal technologies of any
AutoCAD© and/or AutoCAD© LT files ! Therefore, the users position is absolutely legal when using
LT-Extender !
Some important notes:


Users that would like to activate the 3D-Surface commands and/or Renderer commands will need to copy
some original AutoCAD© files into any support path of AutoCAD© LT. It is absolutely nessecary to be in
possession of a valid AutoCAD© license to use those files under AutoCAD© LT, to have a minimum legal
safety ! In any case, the user will take all responsibility for using AutoCAD© files under AutoCAD© LT !



From http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/item?siteID=123112&id=3653101&linkID=4564192



Autodesk Seeks Legal Compliance from German Company Violating Copyrighted Intellectual Property to Safeguard Customers



SAN RAFAEL, Calif., October 17, 2003—Autodesk, Inc. (NASDAQ: ADSK), the leading design software and digital content company, today announced that it has filed a lawsuit seeking legal compliance from the developer of LT-Extender, a German company, that is violating copyright protected intellectual property and other rights. Evidence indicates that LT-Extender is unlawfully manipulating Autodesk’s AutoCAD LT® software and inciting the unauthorized copying of AutoCAD files to offer extended functionality that is unsupported by Autodesk, putting Autodesk customers at risk. Autodesk is aggressively pursuing the maker of LT-Extender, and investigating similar reported unlawful and unauthorized practices by other companies, to protect and safeguard:

customers from risks with unauthorized and unsupported use of AutoCAD LT by third-party developers;
Autodesk’s legitimate 2,800 third-party developers;
intellectual property rights;
the competitive advantage of customers using Autodesk software; and
the reputation of Autodesk’s high quality products."Protecting our customers is our primary concern. We cannot support the technology offered by violating companies so our customers are vulnerable to receiving products that are not supported by Autodesk and may not operate properly with the applications of Autodesk’s legitimate 2,800 third-party developers," said Sandy Boulton, director of the Piracy Prevention Department at Autodesk. "Companies like LT-Extender are stealing from our creative team of product engineers and putting our customers and their valuable design work at risk."
Unlike AutoCAD, AutoCAD LT was not intended as an application development platform, but as a pure 2D alternative to the full 2D and 3D features and functions of AutoCAD software.
Users who require features and functions beyond those provided by AutoCAD LT are urged to consider AutoCAD products or one of the industry-specific Autodesk programs, either stand-alone or together with one or more third-party applications.
Today's action is part of Autodesk's Piracy Prevention Program whose charter is to educate customers and the general public about software piracy and its damaging effects on the economy and product innovation, while aggressively seeking legal recourse against copyright infringers. For more information on Autodesk's Piracy Prevention Program, to report suspected piracy, or to confirm that you are not violating your software license agreements, call Autodesk's Piracy Prevention Hotline at 1-800-NO COPIES or visit www.autodesk.com/piracy (http://www.autodesk.com/piracy)


Both are a bit old, but both raise good points.
Which do you think is right?
If you have LT Extender, does your boss actually know about any of this, or are they in the dark as always when it comes to AutoCAD?

[ReMark]

A perplexing issue at best. The extender seems to be legal but to get it to work some AutoCAD files need to be copied? Hmmm...I could see where AutoDe$k would want to put a stop to that immediately. Why can't the two companies come to some sort of agreement that would be 1) in both their interests and 2) in the interest of the customer? Me thinks it boils down to an ego trip and a perhaps some $$$.

[LCE]

Me thinks it boils down to an ego trip and a perhaps some $$$.
Which at the end of the day is what business is all about.

Whilst I HATE LT, I can understand Autodesk's pov.
Whether we like it or not (which we don't), if you want full AutoCAD, you have to pay the price for it.

As has been discussed, which again, we may not agree with, but have to live with, Autodesk have a right to do whatever they want with their products, so how is it right for someone to then come along and completely change 1 of their products?

Believe it or not, I side with Autodesk on this 1, as I make a lot of applications, I would hate it if I developed an LT version of a tool for some reason, and then someone came along and added a load of functionality that I had removed from it.

I don't expect many to agree, because at the end of the day, the bottom line is the bottom line on the bank balance, and LT Extender obviously makes that look better than paying out for full AutoCAD, but I think LT Externder should be shut down ASAP, not only for the cost/legal aspects, but also because I have found it crap to deal with as a CAD Manager in a whole world of ways.

[rkmcswain]

Here is another viewpoint:
http://drcauto.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=5505#5505

[zars]

This is really interesting. It would be good to hear the point of views of our members that use it.

[Strix]

the biggest gripe I can see Autodesk having with it is with those companies who have a support package

why should Autodesk fund hiccups created by an unauthorised bolt on?
I think you'll find car manufacturers feel the same way about mods to their vehicles!

Now if Autodesk were prepared to licence bolt on software writers, on the proviso that the licencee deal with interface issues...

[StykFacE]

Of course it's wrong. 1st of all it's common sense, 2nd of all LT-Extender manipulated what is said in the EULA. There's a reason for LT, and LT-Extender broke it. Plain and simple. :)

[ReMark]

I see no reason why adding functionality to an established program should be deemed anything but benefical to the end user provided the add-on program does not require the user to do anything illegal. One way for AutoDe$k to curtail the usefulness of LT Extender would be to buy the company, strangle the product, and put the technology on the shelf to die a slow death and/or use it down the road to its own advantage. Might makes right, doesn't it? All power to AutoDe$k!

Given the depth of AutoDe$k's pockets they'll probably just litigate the other company to death. Game...set...match.

[zars]

Of course it's wrong. 1st of all it's common sense, 2nd of all LT-Extender manipulated what is said in the EULA. There's a reason for LT, and LT-Extender broke it. Plain and simple. :)

I saw your post and made me think, if Lt-Extender is breaking the law, is it the same for all the add-ons that are out there for full AutoCAD and LT?

[rkmcswain]

Read section 3.2.7(b) of the EULA for yourself and then decide...



You may not utilize any equipment, device, software, or other means designed to circumvent or remove any usage restrictions, or to enable functionality disabled by Autodesk in connection with the Excluded Materials. You may not bypass or delete any functionality or technical limitations of the Autodesk Materials that prevent or inhibit the unauthorized copying or use of the Excluded Materials.

********
Definitions:

“Autodesk Materials” is the collective term for the Software, User Documentation, and Excluded Materials.

“Excluded Materials” means any programs, modules, components, or functionality, if any, that may be included on media or with materials delivered to You that are not within the License Parameters as described in the User Documentation, or for which You have not paid the applicable fees.
********


With AutoCAD, using an add-on (like ToolPac for example) isn't uncovering "disabled functionality", it's simply automating tasks that you can already do. Of course there are some things you can't do without add-on's in AutoCAD, but the API is exposed by Autodesk for this reason.

Since LT cannot run lisp and ARX out of the box, is using an add-on that enables this ability a violation? Or maybe the better question is "what exactly do these add-on's do?" - if they are not "enabling hidden functionality", but rather providing this functionality external of AutoCAD LT - then that is a different story....

[zars]

But then AutoDESK should have to check all of the add-ons just to find out which ones comply the EULA.