Best MEP coordination program

Our company has been using Quikpen for years and are converting to CADduct. We just got a large project that we are responsible to do the modeling, coordination and collision check for all trades. The architect is using Revit. Not sure what other MEP trades are using yet. Navisworks has been recommended to us as a better program for collision checking than Revit. Any suggestions/opinions?

We have been using AutoCAD MEP 2009 for all our coordination and collision detection and seems to work well. The biggest draw back id the single line representation and no collision detection for the plumbing components.

why not give navis a go if its a large tight job you cant go wrong

Heylou,

Could you please tell me how much will the quickpen program cost ?

yearly? or onetime license fee?

Thank you

We're just about to get Navis having used the demo of the latest one... but it's damn expensive... nearly 10 grand (GBP) for a single network licence... 7 for a stand alone. We're using it alongside CadDuct having booted MEP into touch... MEP is a good design tool but CadDuct is way better for co-ord.

You see, I would disagree about cadduct being better for co-ord. Do you not find the shakey connectivity, the difficulty to change designs a buit frustrating. I have used it over all services, duct pipe and elec and have found it wanting in certain areas of the program. I can understand why, as cadduct have come from the fabrication side of things, Autodesk are from the design side. A mix of the two would be great, but the closest to the mix is the newly released MEP Fabrication, a collaboration between ECC cand Autodesk, which now does all that cadduct can, but with better design and co-ord capabilities. Also, you can then not bother with Navis works as the integrated checking tools are very good, with fairly decent rendering capabilities aswell. Not forgetting of course its compatability with Revit.

Yeah we've seen ECC developing their software over the last year or so (& it almost does what they originally said it would)... unfortunately their catalogues are destinctly lacking where CadDuct are more than willing to add any product range if it is important to our requirements. Maybe in a couple of years we'll look at them again.

The only plus to this is that they now have dedicated staff purely for the input of data into the SQL server. They have said (though yet to be seen) that product information can be implemeted within 6 weeks for full catalogues, though they could do it quicker for really urgent stuff/part catalogues. The beauty of the SQL server means that it is a dynamic update, it is available as soon as it is completed, the next time you load up the software, without the need for downloading transport services (very messy) or waiting for a software update.

I presume you're talking about MEP/ECC... we tried for a year to get updated catalogues out of ABS/MEP & pretty much got the brush off which is why our entire company went over to CadDuct & have been using it for over a year now... if they've finally got their act together then good but they've lost us for the time being... maybe in another year we'll look again. I'll be genuinely interested in hearing how you get on with the new product Jacko as any improvements can only be good.

Our whole company also went over to cadduct, at exactly the same time as you did . The difference being that in our office we had many long term projects, which had started with MEP and therefore had to continue that way. You probably know my worries with cadduct long term as you have heard me or my collegues say them before. I will continue to fight the corner of MEP, as I am a fan of the co-ordination processes, while still, where requested doing cadduct stuff. It is all more strings to my bow as it were. Improvements to any program is of course welcome, in a perfect world cadduct would actually get on with Autodesk and not just tolerate them, then they could take the best of both programs and make a great piece of software. For the most part, my experience with MEP FAB was through each of the beta and test versions, still needed work, but was very promising.

By the way. Late of the pier......good band, though I haven't bought the album yet....

How did I guess it was you?

Lucky Guess I suppose.

I have ECC Fabrication add on and it is the worst. Support is very poor i.e. I called them twice about a user manual I did not get. Both time they told me I would receive one via email but never received it. The pipe catalogs are just ok and the duct catalog is a touch better than the OTB catalog. The piping and spools are about the only good thing I can say about the product. The duct parts are more time consuming than most of the OTB parts i.e. when you go to modify/change a part it does not remember the sizes of the part which can be a real pain when working with offsets and transitions. You have to try and remember the data or write it down then go change the part. The biggest issue I have is there is no annotation i.e. when to draw fittings with most detailing software it will tag the fitting FOT, FOB, Top Dn, set over, or whatever. You are still left to do this on your own which is a big productivity loss compared to other detailing software. Also; there is no 64 bit or vista support for the product which means you have to run MEP on 3.5 GB of ram (not good). These people wrote the book on detailing software for ductwork and piping and I find it hard to believe they would put out such junk.

Another one I would stay away from is CADPIPE by AEC . The product is fine however; they are involved in outsourcing shop drawings to India. I am guessing their software sales went flat so they are getting into the SD business. This is a poor business model i.e. they want you to buy software from them yet they are reducing the work force that uses it. Personally, I would not do business with a company that retarded not to mention any company that outsources any job should be ashamed of themselves. Asking middle class Americans to compete with workers who where goat herders just a few years ago is a big part of why we are in the fix we are in now. How can one compete with someone who does not have to pay taxes or buy their software?

I can only think that you have ECC as the add on, not the MEP Fabrication. ECC are working directly with Autodesk to fully integrate the two programs. It is much better now than it ever was. Much smoother, not a collection of routines but a full product sold by Autodesk. The issues you talk about no longer exist.

As for CADpipe, I used their software a few years ago, maybe 5....... It was not a great product at all.

With regards to the India thing, all businesses are run on cash flow, if somebody can do it cheaper and to a similar standard, they will get them to do it, would you pay $40k for a car you can get for $30k? Fortunately, we haven't bowed to it, yet, though I know of others who have and have said that their work is of quite a high standard.

I own two combo seats of ECC fabrication (I need 6 but they will not get another penny from me as the software is today). As far as it being “far better than it ever was”. Well, it’s the first release and it is a 3rd party add on sold by East Coast Cad. I have no doubt they know what it needs to be i.e. Randy Swain and David Derocher have been at this for a long time. I went from a pencil & tee square to quick pen with them and I do see them getting there someday however; the state of the software today is nowhere close its competitors. Their stand alone program EC CAD 2008 (the old Quick Pen) would be a far better choice.