Structural Drafting With Autocad, help with the last 3 plates

[paisis123]

HELLO AGAIN CAD TUTOR! (you guys are awesome):shock:

As the title imply i finished the first 4 plates of my project and now im starting the last 3 plates.
In these last three plates it involves having 3 Detail drawings of certain aspects of the building and drawing them with greater detail. but i ask on what am i drawing exactly. the instructions have information randomly filled out all over the book and that makes no sense at all.

does anyone have a picture of the last three plates to verify on what should be done? (i have looked through the forums and only found pics of plates 1-4, not 5-7) :geek:

and i ask "what is a size description?"

heres the booklet that im reading and trying to understand :glare:
31021

also note that as i wait for a reply ill try to draw these free hand on a piece of paper then wasting my time in autocad before i actually get the drawing correct.

i thank anyone and everyone in advance. :roll:

[ReMark]

Are you talking about plates 5, 6 and 7 (Roof details, Connection details and Foundation details respectively)?

The instructions are fairly straightforward in what they are asking the student to detail. Basically you are going to draw some details then take portions of them and enlarge them further. These enlarged details will contain more information than could be shown at the smaller scale.

Re: size descriptions is just what it means. If you are calling out a beam or a column you need to say what size/shape it is. For example: Steel Column W12x152, Exterior Column 22'-5" Lg.

I would suggest using a "tag" to identify the objects in your drawings then create a table to one side listing in one column the "tag" number and in the second column the size description. A tag is a circle with a number in it and a line pointing to the object. You can find a dynamic block of this type on your tool palette on the Annotation tab.

[paisis123]

thanks for the quick reply ReMark. (gives virtual cookie, topped with awesomeness)

i have another question though.

what exactly is "welded wire fabric" and how do u draw it? it asks me to draw it.

also for this project its all about Zooming in onto the specified areas to show more objects? that makes it simpler. and have u found any reference pitures? i was seraching but no cigar.....:unsure:

[ReMark]

"Welded wire fabric is really steel wire, much like a screen, where all the points of contact where the wires touch each other have been spot welded together."

Typically this is shown as a dashed line and everywhere there is a gap an "X" is depicted.

Of course I have drawings of the plates but I want to see what you can come up with first. Give it your best shot. I don't like to be disappointed though. I have full faith and confidence in your ability to do it. Go...read...then do.

[paisis123]

okay gotcha. ill attempt to do plate 5 with my limited knowledge.

then ill post it so we can compare notes and/or adjustments as needed.

thanks for all the help. (after these last 3 plates, I graduate! so whose hiring as of now?)

[ReMark]

You've basically done some of this already when you drew the other plates.

Who's hiring? Not sure. Look at some of the job boards or craigslist or try over at Cadalyst magazine (they have job postings).

[paisis123]

okay i have finished plate 5. i have done what basically the book told me to do.

Here is plate 5. I finished after 4 hours of work. (slow work, im a bad procrastinator)

31055

if u see any adjustments that need to be made please tell me. thanks in advance.:unsure:

[ReMark]

First question. You have a mixture of text sizes for your callouts, why? I also notice that you didn't use the tag I mentioned (a bubble with a number inside). More professional looking in my opinion.

[ReMark]

Detail "C" should have two areas circled that reference Details C1 and C2. Both of these details should be of a scale that make them easily readable. The detail to the right of C2 (the one you dimensioned) is so small it is barely readable. Each detail should also have the scale called out as well.

I would also make use of hatching to distinguish important features like the cap plate for instance. BTW, wouldn't the flashing extend up and over the cap?

[paisis123]

Excellent deduction Watson. I cant seem to scale it correctly as it changes the length of the dimensions. for example when i scale it up it makes a 1 inch line 4 inches long. is there a way to enlarge it with out affecting the scale?

and I looked for the bubble and found was the Multileader. i don't know how to activate the bubble in the multileader settings (maybe i missed it?):unsure:

and yes i should do the hatching to distinguish between parts. but i also have to mention that the steel plate for the cap detail is 14" long while the I beam is 13-3/4" so there not much room.

and regarding more of the flashing, in the book it shows something like flashing , it calls it galvanized metal clap with cleats. (page 30, fig. 21-56) i tried to follow that but as you can see i have failed. (okay maybe a C+ :oops:)

[ReMark]

There's something amiss with your beam cross-section. It does not appear to have been drawn to the right dimensions.

Back up. What exactly did you scale? Since you are doing everything in model space when you create your enlarged detail and try to dimension it AutoCAD assumes it is drawn to the same scale as the original. Thus, if a line was originally 3" long and you enlarged it by a factor of 4 in your detail AutoCAD will dimension it as being 12" long. Do you understand that? This is one of the reason why annotative scaling is so useful but it requires that the CAD tech make use of paper space layouts and viewports which it seems you are not utilizing. Is that correct?

Wouldn't the steel sheathing on the outside of your column be attached vertically not horizontally?

[paisis123]

yes maybe the scaling is throwing the whole drawing off. i just wanted to enlarge it with out affecting diamentions. i tried using the scale command but that didnt work. (im always confused on scale):?

and maybe i need to redo the column? the drawing instructions are vague and don't really show on what your actually trying to do.

and thanks for the thought provoking questions. unlike other people i like being challenged!:lol:

[ReMark]

This is what your W12x45 should look like.

31056

[ReMark]

My point is that when you scale something in model space and try to dimension it in model space you WILL affect the dimensions. One way to overcome this is to create a dimension style that uses a scale factor. This can be changed in your dimension style on the FIT tab where it says "Scale for dimension features" > "Use overall scale factor". In your case I am guessing this would be a scale factor of 4. This new dimension style is used only to dimension the enlarged details. Use your normal dimension style for objects that have not been scaled. Another option would be to use your normal dimension style BUT override the dimension AutoCAD uses by substituting the correct dimension.

[paisis123]

okay thanks for the help!:)

ill make the adjustments and ill start on the final 2 plates. wish me luck!

and how do substitute the correct dimension after you enlarge it? that will the easiest course of action for me to do.

[ReMark]

Any number of ways. Try using Quick Properties, or Properties, or double-clicking on it, etc.

[paisis123]

I have Plate 6 if you want to look at it.8)

31103

i want you to see if the drawing is right and what kind of connection is there for Detail D1? i know how to do the connection from the girder to the Channel beam. but to the steel column to the girder is like missing. can you shed some light to this?:cry:

and you forgot to show me your pic of plate 5!:glare:

[ReMark]

Two angle clips are used to make the connection in D1.

[paisis123]

I just started my final plate (plate 7). i was reading the instructions on what to include before i start and i found something that's confusing. if you go to page 21 of the booklet and then to number 15 and 16, it asks for a 4" drain and the clearances of the 4" drain, respectably. :?

31148

How do you draw the drain? (never saw one in my booklet or in real life)

Can you provide any details on it?

also i have to ask about Plate E1. it looks like theirs alot info to provide, but i don't know what certain things are or there descriptions. like for example, what is an anchor bolt? how do you draw it? etc.:cry:

any answers or rough drawings are appreciated!8)

[ReMark]

You can find images of roof drains on the Internet via Google.

Anchor bolts are used to bolt columns into concrete slabs. Draw the bolt, washer and hex nut. Depending on the view (plan or elevation) each part of the anchor bolt will look different.

[khoshravan]

Sorry for interruption. What is the meaning of plate in this drafting?

[paisis123]

plate is the drawing segment in which im working on. for example i have 7 plates that must be completed.

[khoshravan]

plate is the drawing segment in which im working on. for example i have 7 plates that must be completed.

I thought it has a meaning in drafting/drawing!?

[ReMark]

Plate = Drawing. Each drawing the student is required to produce is given a plate number.

[ReMark]

There is a CAD drawing of a roof drain detail here. http://www.cadcorner.ca/caddetails/archdetails.php

I am familiar with Plate 7 however your reference to Plate E1 is incorrect. That would be Detail E1. It would be an enlarged detail showing the "J" bolt that anchors the column. The bolt is 1 1/2" in diameter and 18" long. A "J" bolt has a small hook at the end thus the reason for its name. The bolt projects 3 1/2" above the baseplate. Normally there would be both a washer and a nut securing the bolt at the baseplate. See "rough" sketch below.

.31166http://www.cadtutor.net/forum/images/misc_cadtutor/pencil.png

[khoshravan]

Plate = Drawing. Each drawing the student is required to produce is given a plate number.

Very interesting. Do you have any idea what caused to use plate as drawing?

[ReMark]

Greek - platus - flat.

A drawing is flat.

[eldon]

Do you have any idea what caused to use plate as drawing?

Probably in the past, long ago, when books had illustrations in them, these would have to be engraved individually onto plates of metal, which were used in the printing process. In the books, they were referred to as Plates and given numbers for identification.

Makes a good story anyway :D

[ReMark]

I like his ^ ^ ^ explanation better. :D

[paisis123]

Greek - platus - flat.

A drawing is flat.

also since if u didn't know but my last name is Greek. my father is Cypriot and my mother is from Greece.

also another Greek word is -Piato- which means "plate" (pronoucced Pee-Yah-Tou)

and thanks remark for doing the rough sketch of the j bolt. i needed that!

[ReMark]

I did not do the sketch. I borrowed it from another drawing and erased the non-pertinent information.

[paisis123]

thanks for all the help guys

i submitted the project with all 7 plates and got whooping 97 (A+) on it! thanks for all time u spent helping a noob like me!

[ReMark]

Congrats on your high score. So, what's next?

[paisis123]

Nothing really.

that was the last project that needed to be completed in my Penn Foster course.

Now i await the arrival of my diploma/certification.

the next step is an internship/apprenticeship:roll:

[ReMark]

Atlanta, Georgia.

What is the employment picture like there in Atlanta? Have you already started searching job forums like Monster.com and alike? Have you looked fat listed jobs on craigslist? Cadalyst magazine has a Jobs section at its website. Might want to check that out as well.

[paisis123]

yes i will start searching immediately. ill have my father help me with a resume. thanks for the advice!

[ReMark]

Did you have a particular field in mind? Such as architectural, structural, mechanical, civil, environmental, other?

Good luck in your search. Hope you find something.

[gowinmodi]

Hello,
Thank you very much for all of you for share your work on this website. Please can any one has all plate ready and like to share with me.
I have very hard time to understand this project.


Thank you

[ReMark]

It depends on what you mean by "...share with me." Please elaborate.

What are you having trouble understanding?

You are being asked to draw a building using structural shapes. One of those shapes, a W12x152, will be similar to that shown in post #13 of this thread with the only difference being the actual size (height, width, web and flange thicknesses). Sometimes this shape is referred to as an "I" beam. The vertical leg is called the "web" while the two horizontal legs are called "flanges".

At the beginning of the project you will lay out a grid and locate 20 of these "I" beams, or columns, in plan view. Have you at least accomplished this much?

[ReMark]

Continuing where I left off yesterday.

Each column will have a baseplate 14x14x1/2 thick. Each baseplate will be anchored with two "J" bolts. They are called "J" bolts because they mimic the shape of the letter. When you draw the baseplate and column in plan view you should include the holes for the "J" bolts which would normally be 1/8" larger than the bolt diameter. The baseplates are anchored into a concrete pier and each pier is supported by a 32" square footing that is 16" thick. Your instructions will tell you what is to be shown in Plate 1 (plan view).

In Plate 2 you'll be drawing an elevation view of the south side of the building. Pay particular attention to the way the columns are situated as it will determine what you draw and how you draw it in the elevation. If I recall correctly you will be looking at the face of flange so the column web, which is hidden from view, would be drawn with a dashed or hidden linetype.

[ReMark]

gowinmodi: Since you haven't responded I can only assume you were hoping a forum member who took the Penn-Foster AutoCAD course would email you their finished drawings that you would edit to show your name and the current date then pass them off as your own. One thing for sure, no one here is going to give you their drawings after all the hard work they went through to create them in the first place. As difficult as it may be each student must complete the work on their own. How else are you going to learn?

[gowinmodi]

ReMark:
Thank you very much for your help. Sorry for I did not reply you actully I was busy in study. Your suggestion is very help full and i made first two plate. please can you guide me some more in this project . I dont want to make copy of anybody drawing. I am mechanical engineer so it is hard for me to understand structural drafting words in this project booklet.
Once Again Thank you very much

[ReMark]

If you have further questions regarding this project I suggest that you post them. We will assist you to the best of our ability.

Please post images of your Plate 1 and Plate 2. Do NOT post actual DWG files otherwise they can be downloaded and used by others.

[gowinmodi]

Remark:
How can i make images from dwg file?
I try find out how to make Images and I lost my plate -1.How can i recover that file ?
it is show me blank file.
you have any idea to recover my original file.

[ReMark]

A screen capture will create an image. What OS are you using?

You lost your plate? You did save your drawing at some point didn't you? Did you do a search of your hard drive using Explorer? Where do you normally save your drawings? To a specific folder?

Where are you located? I have to be away from my computer for 30-45 minutes shortly. I'll check this thread upon my return. Be patient.

[gowinmodi]

I am using window7. I saved my file . it is my autocad project folder but now try to open it only blank file.
Take your time i will try to find it or i will draw again it tomorrow.

Thank you

[gowinmodi]

plate -2 screen shot 36722

[ReMark]

Plate 2 looks pretty good from what I can see. Did you include the steel decking?

I notice that you did not show the web of the columns. Were you going to include it? I think in this view it would be hidden.

Did you use Windows 7 Snipping Tool to create the image? I use it for all of mine.

Regarding "lost" drawings. Do you have AutoCAD set up to create a BAK file? Do you have AutoSave enabled? If so, what time interval do you have it set for? 5 minutes? 15? A hour?

[gowinmodi]

ReMark: Yes I put steel decking on first colume. I dont know how setup Autosave enabled.I have bak File in my foulder for Lost drawing .

[ReMark]

The steel decking I am referring to goes on the beams to support the weight of the concrete. Elsewhere in the project steel decking is used to clad the exterior of the garage.

AutoSave is setup through Options on the Open and Save tab. Look for "File Safety Precautions" on the left hand side.

I'll be signing off shortly and may not be back again but upon having my first cup of coffee Saturday morning I will check this thread. I hope you find your drawing and do not have to do it over again.

BTW...you did not answer my question. Where are you located?

Saturday, August 25th: No response or questions from you? Alright. I'll be going out of state today so I will be unable to assist you. I'll try to check in upon my return this evening but I can't promise anything. Hope you are making good progress.

[gowinmodi]

Finally I done with my plate -1.36738
http://www.cadtutor.net/forum/images/misc_cadtutor/pencil.png

[gowinmodi]

Please check my plate-1.
can you check cutting plane symbols is in correct direction ?
Also I have some question in plate-3. (1) how can i show roof drain slopes 1/8" every 1'0"? (2) how can i draw outside walls of the continue up beyond the roof ?
(3) WHAT IS FLASHING ?(PAGE 15 PARAGRAPH 3)

Sorry I ask you somany questions .
if possible so make hand sketch so I can understand it.

Thank you

[ReMark]

Unfortunately it is not easy to determine in which direction your cutting plane symbols are pointing with the grips obscuring the view.

I thought that the roof itself slopes toward the drain (which would be vertical by the way)?

Walls that continue up beyond the roof? I thought the "walls" in this case were actually pieces of corrugated metal panels (decking used vertically)?

Flashing? Either aluminum or copper to guard against water penetration. Flashing is typically used around chimneys where it meets the roof or at the ledger board of a deck where it attaches to the house.

If I have a chance, after supper, I'll take a look at the copy of Plate 3 that I have and the instructions then post back with any further comments.

[ReMark]

The flashing is going over the top of the wall at each end of the garage.

The roof (poured in place concrete) is sloped from the east and the west towards the roof drain which collects the water and carries it away from a vertical drainage pipe. The slope on the roof is 1/8" per foot. This means that every eight feet the roof drops 1".

An example of a roof drain can be found here (the Zurn Z-100): http://www.roofdrainexpress.com/

An example of a sheet metal parapet cap can be found here: http://fieldscorp.com/commercial/BURsystems/Installation/PDFdetails/fd22.pdf

I need to see a close-up image of one of your garage floors so I can check for the presence of the metal decking that was called for.

Last time. Where are you located? I don't answer any more of your questions until you answer mine.

[gowinmodi]

36742ReMark:
I am located Philadelphia Pennsylvania. Here I am uploading close Image.

Thank you

[gowinmodi]

What is Garage?

[ReMark]

A garage is where one parks their vehicle. Having read through several more pages of the instructions I'm no longer sure that the building is a parking garage. I shall refrain from calling it such in further posts.

The use of the arrows above do not appear quite right. Unless the footing is dashed the lines would not pass through the beams. If you are using the white lines to indicate the center of the beam you would not use a continuous line.

Can I get a close-up of your sectional drawing? The concrete floor must be shown in it.

Regarding the wall at each end that extends above the roof of the building. Since you are drawing a section the "wall" in this case will be steel column the is sheathed on both sides with corrugated metal. The top of the column will have a plate welded to it. The "flashing" covers this plate and extends down the face of both pieces of corrugated metal. Refer to the link I provided in post #54 re: parapet cap.

[ReMark]

Shouldn't section line A-A run through the building in a east-west direction and point to the north (relatively speaking)?

And shouldn't section line B-B run through the building in a north-south direction and point to the west (relatively speaking)?

I say "relatively speaking" only because I believe north is not pointing straight up but rather, if you looked at a clock, pointing towards the one o'clock position.

[ReMark]

36749

This is what I came up with for the flashing (in red) at the top of the column. The cross-hatched area is the plate. The dashed lines represent the web of the column.
Note that the flashing has an angled lip which is referred to as a "drip edge".

[gowinmodi]

Remark
Thank you very much for cutting plane symbols correction. I started to draw plate-3 it is same as plate-2 some detail is only section (girder w12x45).
I like to know where steel deck will rest on girders or channel beam ?
Sorry I did not answer about white line, it is center line and it is not continuous line but in Image it is look like continous line.

Thank you for all your help.

[ReMark]

I believe the decking rests on the channels. The bottom of each channel rests on the top face of the bottom flange. Something like this:

36772

[ReMark]

Yes, the two plates are very similar. Plate 3 however includes the roof drain and it is on this drawing that the student will circle the areas that will be detailed further on in the project.

[gowinmodi]

Good Afternoon ReMark,
I like to know in plate-3 (page 15) how do i draw welded wire fabric are #12 gage 6" on center . on book they saw line and x symbol for WWF but i dont know how to make X symbol in Auotcad .

Thank you

[ReMark]

I would create a block. You have a couple of options. The first would be a block just of the "X". The second would be a line segment with an "X" only at one end ( -------- X ). Get the idea?

[ReMark]

36798
My welded wire fabric block is at the top. One line segment with a "X" at the right end. Below that is a group of three created with the ARRAY command. Pretty simple to make and to use.

While you might be tempted to draw a single long line then place a block of an "X" along it at intervals, using the MEASURE or DIVIDE command, don't do it. Why? That would look more like a chain link fence. The welded wire fabric should have a "gap" between ends of line segments where the "X" would appear. I probably should have left a little more room on either side of my "X" but you get the idea right?

[warpath37]

hello again remark, after looking through this particular thread its apparent that my entire strucural drafting project is extremely wrong, well for the most part anyways. a few posts back you were talking about scaling (i am currently working on plate 5 S.D.) and i was hoping you could shed some light 'barney style' since i'm not affluent with the autocad program yet. another quick question how do i get the 'earth' hatch below the finish grade. every time i try to get it to set a hatch it doesnt let me because of no boundary. am i supposed to draw a line to create a boundary or will the hatch command do that for me if i do it the right way? thanks for your help in advance

[ReMark]

What is your question re: scaling?

Re: hatching. Short answer: yes, draw a "boundary". The project does not require the student to completely hatch the entire drawing end-to-end with the earth hatch pattern.

[warpath37]

yeah i tinkered around with the earth hatching and i just drew a polyline and hatched it. looks good now. let me put it to you this way, i have to idea how to scale anything on autocad at all, even after trying to read the harnessing autocad 2010 book. i understand that 2:1 ratio means for every 6 inches it would be 3 inches in real life but when it asks to scale the details on plate 5 i dont understand what you meant in your post on dimensions with the scale. at any rate heres plate 2 feel free to critique its not finished completely but a few touchups i believe.

37006

[ReMark]

Your hatching appears to be quite dense. You might want to increase the scale factor. It also appears some of your hatching "leaked". It's the AR-SAND pattern used in the slab. Shouldn't that hatch pattern be concrete after all it is a concrete slab right? I think you may have gotten carried away with the use of the HIDDEN linetype. Way too many of your layers use it when it is not called for. Example: some of your hatch patterns are on layers that use a HIDDEN linetype which is totally unnecessary. You might want to review all your layers, their colors and their linetypes and make sure they match what is called for in the instructions for the project.

[ReMark]

I do not have the instructions for this project on the computer I am currently using so I cannot advise you on scaling portions of your drawing to be used for detailing at this time. I'd take a portion of the drawing that you have been asked to detail and scale it by a factor of two.

[warpath37]

ok i will work on those things you mentioned and hopefully post the other plates for more of your guidance. thank you

[ReMark]

When I have the opportunity on Monday morning I will take an in-depth look at your drawing. Be prepared for some constructive criticism.

[warpath37]

thats fine with me. I dont claim to be a pro by any means at Autocad. i saw what you meant about the colors and linetypes as well as the hatching. i got a little carried away with my sand hatch lol. i have fixed all of that but i'm sure you will find a lot more wrong. thanks for your guidance

[gowinmodi]

Remark Thank you very for help during project 5 .I Just received 95 grade in this project . I don't know how can I finish this project without your help. You are rock star .

[ReMark]

Your kind words are much appreciated. You're entirely welcomed. Congrats on your grade of 95. Keep up the good work. :)

[ReMark]

warpath:

Regarding Plate 2.

1. The student is asked to dimension the overall height and length of the structure. You show only the height.

2. You have dimensioned the rebar in the footing. That is not called for in this plate.

3. You have failed to show the decking on the upper levels that is needed to hold the concrete slab.

4. The steel cladding on the side of the structure is dimensionally wrong.

5. Where are the baseplates for each column?

6. Don't you need a "J" bolt for each column in this view?

7. Linetypes for some layers are wrong.

8. Your missing some callouts (ex. - 8" layer compacted sand).

9. Arrowheads too small.

10. The channels are not supposed to be centered on the beams. The bottom of the channel is supposed to be flush with the top side of the bottom flange of the beam.

11. Dimensions shouldn't have extension lines running through them. Perhaps your dimension text height is a bit too large?

12. You're missing the clips that hold the beams to the columns.

13. You're missing the steel in the piers.

These are the obvious things I have picked up on. I'm sure I missed a couple.

[warpath37]

I've been looking forward to hearing your corrections all day lol. Luckily from what you have posted here its not like I have to scrap the drawing and start over. However, I have the baseplates there, you are referring to the 14x14x1/2" that goes on the top and bottom of the w12x152 steel column? I will work on all of this and hope to post a drawing with all of the corrections later this evening. Once again thank you, without this site and your help I would fail out of the PF autocad program.

[warpath37]

37043

new and improved plate 2

[ReMark]

You're getting better but there is still some room for improvement.

You really like to hatch don't you? It really isn't necessary to put that much hatching into a drawing. It is visually distracting and depending on your computer could slow you down while working on the drawing.

The "J" bolts should be centered on the baseplates I believe. Your appear to be off-center.

You have the footing drain slicing through your piers. This would never happen in the real world. Remember that you are just looking at the end of the pipe on both sides (hint: circle).

Never run text through your geometry...it is just bad form and will tell everyone you are a novice in the world of CAD drafting. We want them to think the opposite right?

The steel rebar in the piers is missing.

Arrowhead sizes are all over the place. They should be fairly consistent. In a couple of places they are way too small while in others they barely give you room to get your dimensions in.

The hatching in the columns would only appear if one were looking at the edge of the flange not the face. In most cases I wouldn't even bother with hatching the edge unless I was doing a detail that included the edge of flange.

The "clips" that you show should not pass through the web of the channel. They would, however, be flush with the inside face of the web.

The extension lines on your dimensions should extend past the arrowheads a bit and not stop right at the end of them.

Is the exterior cladding supposed to be horizontal or vertical? I can't recall.

You are missing the decking on the first level. When the contractor pours the concrete it will end up on the heads of the people working below! BTW...the decking sits on top of the channels which span between the beams.

Sorry for being such a stickler for detail but you want to distinguish yourself from the rest of the pack when you apply for a job and the only way to do that is be better than average. Don't ever let this be your motto: "It's not only good, it's good enough." OK?

[ReMark]

Concrete pier footing detail example.

http://www.prlog.org/10539485-concrete-pier-footing-details-reinforced-concrete-detailing-service.html

An example of a beam and channel with decking.

37047

[ReMark]

37048

An example of a pier, footing and pile cap. Notice the hatching? Just enough to get the point across without being obtrusive.

[warpath37]

no need to be sorry, i'm jacked up! haha. slowly but surely. thanks i will work on it this evening!

[ReMark]

37054
Here is what it says in my copy of the instructions for Plate 2 regarding rebar in the "pillar" (I call it a pier).

Regarding the metal siding (a.k.a. - decking). There is no mention whether this is attached vertically or horizontally. My guess would be that vertical is the way to go based on what we do here at our chemical plant with corrugated metal siding.

On page 13 of the instructions it says only four specific items must be labeled in Plate 2.

Only the footings, columns and roofline are to be designated by hidden lines according to the instructions. Use hatching to show the siding only in small patches is another recommendation.

[warpath37]

ok I've been working on the corrections, however i'm stumped on the rebar and the hatching. when im trying to hatch inside lets say my pillar to create a hatch that looks like yours, it takes up the whole area. how do i get it to look like your hatching where theres no obvious polyline at the end for a boundary? and for the rebar it refers to a page in the study booklet which i dont know if you have but what exactly does it mean? i probably should not have taken this course online seeing how much trouble i'm having with understanding autocad, but i did and i have to complete it. I appreciate your help and your patience

[ReMark]

I don't have the study booklet. Do you?

You don't see my hatch boundary because it is on a layer that is frozen. Sometimes I don't even do that, I just erase the boundary after completing the hatching. My technique is to do a small portion then either copy or mirror it.

Online courses can be a challenge since, at least the way Penn-Foster does it, the "instructors" aren't all that easy to get in touch with and they aren't all that helpful. I have even found at least one instance where the information that was provided (a hand sketch of a streetline) was wrong. I challenged them on it but no one at P-F would respond. As a student of P-F is there a forum were other students taking the same class can help each other or at least communicate with each other?

I am not all that impressed with the Penn-Foster AutoCAD program. Despite major changes/enhancements in AutoCAD P-F continues to do some things the "old school" way while at the same time completely ignoring new features. I don't understand how they justify this.

[warpath37]

apparently its not available for electronic distribution. yeah thats the reason why i jumped on here to see if i could get some help. i sent an email sunday to them asking them a few questions and havent heard anything. as far as i know there isnt an online forum for the students. that would just make to much sense to help the student out. i will try out your hatch "secret" later.

[ReMark]

So just what has you stumped regarding the rebar?

I am not surprised to hear that despite emailing P-F on Sunday you have yet to receive a response. I suppose that once they have your money and have provided you with the course materials they have done their job. I am not at all impressed with their instructors. Have you tried contacting someone in the upper reaches of the company/school to voice your concerns regarding the lack of help and timeliness of responses to questions?

[warpath37]

no i have not tried that approach as far as talking to someone from PF but I will give it a shot.

the rebar: in your drawing it has the rebar bending at the bottom the opposite way that the book shows it, the book has them facing each other with a couple of inches overlapping. what does it mean by 'overlap' at the bottom of the pillar? and the 2" clear on the side on yours, where the horizontal rebar meets the vertical piece how far past the vertical rebar is the horizontal piece supposed to extend?

[ReMark]

I assume that you are referring to the image I included in post #81. Do NOT use that as a guide. Each situation calls for a different approach. In the example provided some of the rebar will be installed when the pile cap is poured. This will be allowed to cure for 28 days. The contractor will return and form up the pier and place the remainder of the rebar after which the pier will be poured.

The 2" called for in the above detail is to make sure the rebar is sufficiently covered by concrete. The horizontal rebar, when installed in the field, will extend just far enough that the steelworker has the ability to tie-off the two overlapping pieces with wire. This holds the position of the rebar when the concrete is poured. In a drawing of this type it isn't really necessary to show that overlap but I do. The contractor is familiar enough with this type of work to know what is required and will order the rebar properly sized for length.

[warpath37]

ok got it. The place I work wanted us to build concrete ramps to our steel building for the forklift to use and they tied the ends of the rebar how you described, so i understand what you mean now. now whats the last line of the directions mean exactly " the overlap of the rebar near the bottom of the pillar is approximately 2" " ? I am working on the other defects of my drawing and hopefully soon will be able to post an updated link. thanks again!

[ReMark]

I assume that you have two pieces of rebar that will basically pass each other by. Each bar will overlap the other by 2".

I'm not on my CAD computer at the moment so I cannot provide an image.

[warpath37]

alright that makes sense with what they show in their example. sorry that its taking me a while to understand all of this. bear with me lol

[ReMark]

Hang in there...it will all make sense eventually.

[warpath37]

i sure hope so. take another look if you would be so kind to see what i've come up with : 37117

[warpath37]

after reading through the directions a little more....all the way up to plate 4... it says "for example, you'll be seeing the cross section of the channel beam instead of the flat side of the beam as shown in section A." section A (plate 3) is drawn from the same angle of looking at the building except that the building has been cut in half to "look inside" almost. so after figuring that out my channel beams should be running horizontally aka the flat side of the beam showing. am i correct on this or am i wrong? because if i'm right I would have to change a lot of stuff on my plate 2 since it would have virtually the same view as plate 3. ughhhhhhhh

[ReMark]

I thought that Plate 2 was supposed to be the South elevation of the building. One would see the columns and the W12x45's (assuming the siding were removed).

Plate 3 is a section through the building; it is cut in an east/west direction looking north. One would see the W12x45 beams in section ( imagine the letter "I" ) but the channels would be running east/west. This would be your Section A-A.

Plate 4 is a section through the building but it is cut in a north/south direction looking east. This would be your Section B-B.

[warpath37]

ok i dont know where i got that idea from. thank you!

[ReMark]

I've been looking back through this project and I am struck by the fact that although Plate 1 is supposed to be the "Foundation Plan" the instructions call for showing the steel beams and channels that make up the second level. Does anyone else familiar with structural and/or architectural drawings find that unusual?

[ReMark]

Well I have decided to give this project a go myself to see what is involved. One of the first things I've come across is that the W12x152 column, baseplate and "J" bolt does not make much sense the way it is presented. In fact, the student will end up showing the "J" bolt in the wrong position when creating the elevation for the south side of the structure.

[warpath37]

i only got an 82 on my completed project, i'm not happy with it, however as much trouble as i've had understanding what the directions wanted, i passed this one. the next one is civil drafting project and i plan on doing a lot better. thanks for your help again remark.

[ReMark]

I've never asked this before but when a student receives a grade are they also made aware of where they may have come up short? Do you get any kind of explanation as to why you got the grade you did?

I sent Penn-Foster at least a dozen emails about the structural project pointing out errors, omissions and places where the instructions made no sense. I did not receive a response to any of the emails. Were you contacted at any time with updates or new information regarding the project?

Personally, I would not look at it from the viewpoint that you did not do well. I think much of the fault lies with the instructions and with the instructors as well.

[progman]

I've never asked this before but when a student receives a grade are they also made aware of where they may have come up short? Do you get any kind of explanation as to why you got the grade you did?

I sent Penn-Foster at least a dozen emails about the structural project pointing out errors, omissions and places where the instructions made no sense. I did not receive a response to any of the emails. Were you contacted at any time with updates or new information regarding the project?

Personally, I would not look at it from the viewpoint that you did not do well. I think much of the fault lies with the instructions and with the instructors as well.

Yes. Penn Foster has also asked me to resubmit a drawing with the corrections as indicated. In one case, my dimensions were off and I needed to correct the drawing, then resubmit for a different grade. And yes, the original grade stood, as well as the new grade. As for the wrong dimensions, I misunderstood part of the notes, (I agree, their materials are lacking in clarity at times....) and needed to redraw one of the plates, (structural).

[chovek]

Sorry for the stupid question, but I wonder what kind of template to start this project

[ReMark]

Start with the acad.dwt template since the drawing is done in imperial units.

[chovek]

I have a problem with this point, I can not figure out what to draw

Box out the title block by drawing a line 1″ from
the border’s right side. Draw it on Layer Border2,
assigning this layer a green color and a continuous
linetype. As an alternative, you could OFFSET the
border line 1″, use CHPROP to change the new polyline to Layer Border2, EXPLODE the polyline, ERASE
the top, and EXTEND the line to the cyan border.

my problem is because my English is not so good sometimes

[ReMark]

38859
This is what one student came up with. He placed it vertically on the right-hand side of his sheet. So imagine it turned 90 deg to the left using the lower left hand corner as your pivot point.

[chovek]

oh thanks, now I know how you really ... the title block just have to be on the right side

[chovek]

39287

I'm on the plate 2,can you check this,I'm not sure rebar is correct

[ReMark]

Sorry but the image is difficult to see clearly therefore I cannot comment one way or the other.

Penn-Foster leaves this so vague its possible to come up with more than one way to show the rebar.

[warpath37]

39289
I've never asked this before but when a student receives a grade are they also made aware of where they may have come up short? Do you get any kind of explanation as to why you got the grade you did?

I sent Penn-Foster at least a dozen emails about the structural project pointing out errors, omissions and places where the instructions made no sense. I did not receive a response to any of the emails. Were you contacted at any time with updates or new information regarding the project?

Personally, I would not look at it from the viewpoint that you did not do well. I think much of the fault lies with the instructions and with the instructors as well.

Sorry it took forever to reply remark, i have been busy with other things...if the attachment worked that is the only thing i received telling me what i goofed up on, problem is i dont have microsoft word on my computer so i can only look at it in read only and cant zoom in far enough to see it. i just want to be done with this school so i can learn the right way to use autocad, not from some jacked up "school" like penn foster.

[ReMark]

No problem. I appreciate the document. Too bad they crammed everything onto one page though as it makes it very tough to read.

So, have you finished your course of study with P-F?

[warpath37]

no i have not, i just turned in the hvac project yesterday and i'm working on the electrical now. all i have left is civil, electrical and the elective project.

[geussb]

im working on the structural project, plate6. i was wondering if i am doing this right? it says show how the beam is connected to the girder. so is that just the angle bracket that shows the girder connected to the C9x20? and also the vertical beams?

[geussb]

39518

here is what i have so far

[ReMark]

They are not vertical beams; they're called columns.

Aren't the beams that run east/west supposed to clip into the column? I don't think the design has one beam clipped into another.

Don't the C9x20 channels sit on the top of the bottom flange of the W12x45 girders? You have your C9 centered between the flanges. Check the instructions.

It looks like you have your concrete, rebar, decking and ceiling passing right through you column. That would be incorrect.

[geussb]

39521does this look better?

[geussb]

crap minus the ceiling tiles still through the column

[ReMark]

Sorry, but I don't think the image above is correct. There are no beam to beam connections on the interior. All beams connect to columns don't they?

[geussb]

i dont know? penn foster just assumes we should know all this, i have no idea how its supposed to work or it would be right the first time. hence the many questions

[ReMark]

Look at the plan view of your column layout.

Do you see any beams that do NOT terminate either at the face of flange on a column or at the face of the web of a column?

Unfortunately I've got to go out into the plant for a couple of hours so I have but 10 minutes left to assist.

Tag. You're it.

Time now 2:16 pm EDST

[geussb]

ohhh ok that makes more sense now. i will fix it and post what ive come to later

[ReMark]

Ok. I'll check back later myself after I come in from the field. Good luck.

[geussb]

39523am i getting closer?... i couldnt find anywhere that said how to connect the girder to the column. i used the same angle brace

[ReMark]

It does say it as it is evident from the plan view. What you have shown above is still incorrect. The girder would stop on either side of the column and be clipped to the face of flange. As far as the girder shown coming towards the viewer clips would be bolted to the web and the the top/bottom flange.

Why are you showing siding on an interior column?

[ReMark]

39532
I think I steered you wrong. I believe this is the detail you have been asked to create. My apologies.

[geussb]

39565 okay i think i got it?

[ReMark]

Are you asking us or telling us?

Left: looks OK but if that is an interior column in the background then there would be no vertical metal siding attached. The vertical siding is on the perimeter columns.

Right: a bit difficult to see due to the face it looks like some of your dimensions are literally on top of each other or squeezed in wherever you could fit them. I could see points be taken off for that.

[kamila]

Hi,
I am working on that project for I dont know how long and I am so tired of it. I have no experience in construction so I dont really know how everything should look like. mostly I am using Google :). Is there any way I could send it to you for review?
Could somebody take a look on that?
Thank you

[ReMark]

You can post images of your drawing. I would not recommend attaching an actual DWG file as another student who is pressed for time may "borrow" it. Know what I mean?

[kamila]

4141441415414164141741418 Those are some of the screenshots. Please, let me know if that is correct. I am still working on some details. Thank you

[ReMark]

For starters your last detail is incorrect. Those clips would be right up against the web of the beam. Additionally the ends of the channels would not be flush with the end of the clip. There has to be some space (the 1" you show) between the web of the beam and the end of the channel to fit the channel between the beams they are connecting to. Refer to post #125 above.

The extension lines on your dimensions should go slightly past the end of your arrowheads too.

[kamila]

you mean like this?41419

[ReMark]

Yes, kind of. Why does it look like your angle clip has a 1" thickness (should be 1/2") and why wouldn't the lines representing the holes in the clip be dashed?

[kamila]

thank you. I got to go to work now. I will post what I will fix :)

[kamila]

i hope i fixed it:)

plate 541428

[kamila]

maybe this one will be better?41430

[ReMark]

Your dimension text needs some adjustment as right now they sit right on top of the dimension line. You might want to coordinate the height of your dimension text and your other text. Pick one size and use it for both. Dimension text appears to be three times that of your text.

[kamila]

hi, should it be the same size? and i am not sure but i think the metal sinidg is attached to the girders, right? so do i draw the columns that are behind?

Thank you

[kamila]

should i make text bigger or dimensions smaller?

[ReMark]

Your dimension text height compared to the text height of the callouts (ex. - 1/2" THK 4X6 WIDE ANGLE) is much larger. I would consider decreasing the height of the dimension text. Doesn't the instructions tell you what height(s) to use?

[ReMark]

...and i am not sure but i think the metal sinidg is attached to the girders, right? so do i draw the columns that are behind?

Thank you

That's just one of many areas where the Penn-Foster project instructions come up short. They don't actually tell you how the metal siding is attached or to what. Since the siding is on the perimeter of the building it seems as though it would have to be attached to the perimeter beams but nowhere in the instructions does it tell the student how this is accomplished. Perhaps there is a piece of angle (ex. 3x3x1/4) welded to the top or bottom of the beams that extends far enough out so the back of the siding (I'm talking about the exterior siding) is flush with the face or edges of the columns. They just don't say.

[kamila]

as far as i understand it says to use layers for different sizes of text but i dont know about exact height

[ReMark]

What scale are the drawings supposed to be plotted to? Is it 1/2"=1'-0"?

[kamila]

some are 1/8"=1' and mostly details are 1/2"=1'

[kamila]

and about that siding. can i keep it attached to the girders like i have or should i attached it to the beams? i am slowly learning construction:)

[ReMark]

The drawings are supposed to be set up to plot on a 11x17 paper size. That means your text can't be so small that it is unreadable.

What text height are you using for your dimensions?

What text height are you using for the callouts?

There is metal siding running vertically (building walls) and metal decking (to support the concrete slab) running horizontally. Which are you talking about?

[kamila]

hi
i really appreciate your quick response to every question but i have access to the computer only in the evening and sometimes mornings.
so the text height for dimensions is 17/32 and for callouts 3/64. and i mean the metal siding running vertically

[ReMark]

Use a height of 0.1 for both.

[kamila]

i dont know what i did wrong but when i do it dimension text is very small and because it was scaled detail i did .4 but it still looks smaller. how to change it?

[ReMark]

You probably applied a scale factor to your dimension text within the dimension style dialog box either on the Fit or the Primary Units tab.

[kamila]

on both the scale is 1

[ReMark]

Your old heights were .53125 for your dimensions and .046875 for your text. The first was too big (it's evident just by looking at your drawing). The second, in my opinion, is too small. 1/16" equals .0625 and your text was smaller than that. That is why I suggested using .1 which is slightly smaller than 1/8" (.125) that many companies standardize on.

[kamila]

i dont have that option. in height i have 0'-0"

[ReMark]

I checked one of the drawings I have in my possession (not done by me). The student used a 3/8" text height.

[kamila]

i tried but it seems to be very big. is there any way i could send actual file so you could check it?

[kamila]

41464can i do the siding this way? what about concrete slab? where does it end?

thank you

[ReMark]

I thought the channel rests on the top of the bottom flange. Yours is slightly off the flange.

"Can I do siding this way?" I'm not sure what you mean. The siding is vertical. In a section it would be represented by a straight line.

The concrete slab would normally end at the outside edge of flange. During the construction phase a plate would be welded to the flange to act as a barrier around the perimeter of the floor. Once again, Penn-Foster fails to give the student enough information thus leading them to guess what is expected of them. Contact your "instructor" to get clarification.

[ReMark]

i tried but it seems to be very big. is there any way i could send actual file so you could check it?
Please see the Private Message I sent you moments ago. Act now; this is a limited time offer.