What does that code really cost

I just felt its time for a gripe there is a dedicated bunch of people here who answer the requests for coded solutions.

I have found more recently that people like myself are getting "Just write this for me"

I spent around 6 hours debugging revising till the recent 3 programs met the posters requests , ok some will say your to slow to write code, it takes time to think about answers and get it to work. Some stuff is done in minutes it depends on wether you have something already done.

Ok you gave me a bit of code but now I want the extra 5 options that I did not tell you about on day one.

If any one out there was to go commercial and request programming you may be paying anywhere around $50/hr + my employee commercial rate is $130/hr for me. I dont get paid that much.

One program I did back in the 486 days some will know about 486's took 23 seconds to do 15 minutes of work and never got paid for it.

So when you ask for something look at your pay rate and how much we are saving you, actually its the bosses money not yours in most cases, rather than keep on asking at some point it is time that when you ask for 5 more options you have to appreciate the coding is done for free and not whinge about where is it.

Any way will still keep coding and trying to help, oh #$%%^ the bottle is empty.

The problem isn't the people asking "do this" often without a please or thankyou, the problem is the idiots that do it, myself included. This isn't a dig at you BIGAL or the many like you, I often wonder how it would be possible to monetise this time. Personally I get a great deal of enjoyment from just solving problems, and there is no way I would learn so much without the daily challenges that other people post. It would be great to get paid for this, but for the biggest majority of people that is just a dream.

I think that's referred to as "project creep". Everybody wants something for free. It's just some want more than others and act as if they are entitled to it.

Maybe a disclaimer is in order? "I will do this for you but if you come back with additional requests it's going to cost you."

You do have the choise whether you respond to a thread or not :-) but I agree , sometimes there's no end to the questions but all the warm reactions you receive afterwards makes it all worth it :-)

I also feel , it makes a huge difference if someone has tried (and failed) and asks for your help or just see this site as a giant shopping mall.

Gr. Rlx

BIGAL

I completely agree with you.

I helped people for a long time and for free.

But one day I wanted to rest and have a beer ... But no one gave me money for this.

After that I decided to make programs for the cost of the bottle.

Now anyone can take the program at the lowest price, and I can rest ...

This applies to programs with more than 100 lines of code, and where immediately you see that it will take a lot.

Maybe you will do so.

Hi,

Good shot with this thread BIGAL.

I recently changed my mind of writing a long lines of codes just for the programming pleasure, enjoyment, entertainment which used to be completely free, so no more custom programs for free unless it is small one.

I have created my own website under WordPress Co. HERE and I am daily developing and enhancing my own programs to be with Global usage and writing new programs almost every four or five days when time permits and all that with low price.

Regards.

The ones that bother me the most are the ones who post their requests on every lisp forum on the web at the same time to get 50 coders working for them at the same time since it doesn't cost them anything anyway.

I love a good rant, especially when I see the issues too and I'm not even a programmer. As a business owner, I fully understand the value of "getting paid" for your work.

But, Big Al (and others), your contributions to the community certainly do not go unnoticed. We've all benefited from you guys greatly through the years.

-TZ

Thank you every one for the reply's, I will still continue to offer solutions, its just more like RLX "if some has tried then failed" you offer help. A quick google finds about 75% of the answers.

And like every one I do them because they are a different task than I have done before.

You have every right to gripe BIGAL. But if you want to be properly rewarded for your efforts, you should probably market yourself accordingly. I say that with the utmost respect.

I'm not a lisp guy, I'm more of a VB and web programmer guy (and even here I'm still novice at best). I have mountains of scripts, lisp routines, vba routines. Some I've written, some I've copped the code from the Internet, some has been written by professional coders at a cost which I now own, ect. But again, lisp is something I've only dabbled in, I'm trying to get there, but it's not easy with a full time job, full time school.

I know the value of these programs, you're absolutely right, even the small ones. Don't take this the wrong way, but I only come here out of desperation after multiple attempts and bashing my head into a wall. You guys are the best in the business, and I honestly wouldn't have a problem donating money for some of my requests. I'd just expect really good code comments as a bonus

Cheers

I've learned alot from this site. You guys are an invaluable source to my learning. I hope that the questions I ask may also help others along they way. I've always seen this forum as a learning forum. I personally don't ever want anyone to write code for me. I enjoy learning and writing. I'd like to get proficient enough to help on the same level as some of you guys. I actually did a couple weeks ago, then Lee-Mac came in and shredded my code

I personally get irritated when people straight up ask you to write their code for them. It's like asking musicians to play for free. I'm a musician also so I know that feeling.

Thank you every one for the reply's, I will still continue to offer solutions, its just more like RLX "if some has tried then failed" you offer help. A quick google finds about 75% of the answers.

 

And like every one I do them because they are a different task than I have done before.

you should google their answer and replay using this

https://lmgtfy.com/

And to be fair, google translate has a lot to answer for, not everyone is eloquent enough to formulate a question with all the subtle nuances to imply a long and fruitless quest at finding a solution that has eluded them for weeks on end. Only finally in a last attempt at holding onto their sanity they type in a heartfelt plea for help into the pages of google translate, and have that program return "GIVE ME the code" and for most people who aren't adept at communicating in the English language this reads as a line of beauty and poetry, and as such they carefully and lovingly copy these words and gently paste them into the archives of CADTutor. I'm English and have lived in a foreign country for nearly 30 years and I know how difficult it can be to sometimes get your meaning across, without sounding abrupt and course.

And as someone who occasionally writes code (yes don't laugh diesel is considered in some places as a programming language - honest), it is often far easier and self satisfying to give someone a road map of directions taking them from London to the sumit of Mount Everest with all the train timetables and flight schedules needed to get them there, when spending a bit of time to actually understand the question could probably be answered with "yeah just turn right at the next junction mate".

I think it comes down to the natural mind set of a coder.

If someone asked you to do their drawing(s) for them you'd probably ask them for payment, or tell them to get lost and do it themselves.

If they ask nicely on a forum then you will give them help and a few pointers. Thats why you are a forum regular, to help others who are stuck.

But coding is different. It's more like doing a puzzle.

"Ah, I see the problem. Now how would I go about solving that?" and "Now I've got it working can I do it better, faster, cleaner?"

It becomes a personal challenge to your skills; which you can't resist.

That's why you write code in the first place, you would never have bothered learing how to code if you didn't enjoy the challenge.

Some people spend hours doing crosswords or playing silly games; others spend hours coding for the challenge.

The difference is that the code (usually) has some use at the end of it.

EDIT

There is another upside to consider.

On another forum, (where I give help and advice to disabled people, mainly about dealing with the UK welfare system), I was recently asked-

"How did you become an expert on all this complicated stuff about benefit laws?"

Quite simple, I was as clueless as everyone else at first, but I learned what I know now by researching the answers to questions people asked on the forum.

Helping others with their problems inceases your own knowledge.

I so share the feeling of the rant Bigal.

I really agree with GuitarGuy on the fact that this is (should be) a learning community. If people come here asking for advice, and are willing to make efforts and are genuinely wanting to learn, I'm glad to help. Some are just code and time leeches, and sadly they probably drove many good lispers away from forums. Nukecad, I also agree with you: it is hard to resist some of these challenges. I must say that I answered to bunch of them in the past few weeks, and on 4 of them, the ops didn't bother to even reply. That pi$$ the **** out of me.

For 1 of them (user Chayong91, total of posts: 1), one could say I took a chance. http://www.cadtutor.net/forum/showthread.php?100762-Sorting-Selection-Set-base-on-X-axis

The next, (user AES, total of posts: , he seemed to be trying, and I hoped in after he replied twice to his own unanswered tread. He never replied to my post. http://www.cadtutor.net/forum/showthread.php?100921-Compressing-Simplifying-a-Lisp

Next one (user PDuMont, total of posts 76), I coded something to achieved what he needed, working on his own sample file. As a reply I got "That's a nice bit of code you have there, but doesn't work for me." (because some things are aparently subject to vary from dwg to dwg and differ from the posted sample.) I modified the code to compensate, reposted and got no reply. http://www.cadtutor.net/forum/showthread.php?100710-Zoom-per-Layout/page2

The last one, (samifox, total of posts 1085) That one really surprised me. He started a thread asking for help on a little math brain puzzle. http://www.cadtutor.net/forum/showthread.php?100779-Creating-hidden-rectangles...-(a-little-math-squeeze-for-your-brain). Bigal and me posted some coding, yet Samifox never made a single reply in the thread. Being a 1000+ post user, maybe something happened to him. I hope not. As rlx said "all the warm reactions you receive afterwards makes it all worth it :-)". Agreed. No replies just sux.

Another thing that make me go blue: when "we" code something for someone, and a while later he needs something added to the code, opens a thread and post the code back (with some additional requests) but without headers/comments/giving credits to the creators in the post. Oh well. That is another topic altogether.

On my behalf I want to thank everyone on this forum! I may not know a lot about programming but I will always be willing to try my hardest with whatever advice is given on here. I definitely appreciate all the help and advice I have been given in the past and will most likely continue to be given in the future! Keep doing the amazing work you all do! CODE ON!