Help with my 3D CAD/CAM modeling project cost and time

OK boys and girls...Although I am a seasoned vet in CAD, 95% of my experience is in Architecture. The other 5% being in mechanical design for Johnson and Johnson, and running CATIA for Eaton, Boeing and Aeroquip. Now that you know my experience you will understand when I say, "HELP" after reading what I need..LOL

Due to the economy and the lack of work in the construction industry I have taken on this project outside my area of expertise. I got a call from a man saying that my old engineering college professor recommended me for this project. This project is a patent of his for a steam generator. He wants me to model each part in the drawing below to be run in a CAD/CAM application.

On to my question. While I feel very comfortable being able to produce the drawings/models, I have some reservations on the time frame and the billing cost.

1.) It will take me 3 times longer to do this than some of you trained in this field.

2.) I really have no idea how long it would take you (trained people) to model it (thats my 1st question).

3.) I have no idea what to charge him (second question). I dont want to charge him my architecture rate ($35.00 hr) because I am afraid it would be too high and it would not be fair to charge him for my incompetence.

Take a look at this drawing and tell me what yall think about it. How long would it take yall to model these parts? (BTW...the motor is not included)

One more thing..I will be using AutoCAD 2007

I am modeling the top one:

Here is cut away view, just in another variation

I feel for you BDesign

Been there, done that... but for a company I'd worked for in the dim and distant past, so at least I was able to level with my old boss, point out that I was very rusty, and that I'd probably have to ask questions. I knew very well that I'd been given the contract for other reasons - like availability now and attention to detail (especially with messy drawings with errors in them as these were), so was able to offer to work on a fixed price instead of hourly rate as I'd done for them in the past

I did as much as I could, took a day in their office, and got the glitches ironed out. When it came to my invoice, he offered to add to the agreed price for that extra day

as somebody at least experienced in producing drawings quickly, stick your finger in the air, have a wild guess, add 50%, ask them if that's acceptable, and negotiate down from there, but aim not to fall below your finger in the air price

do you know why you were recommended for this?

I feel for you BDesign

 

Been there, done that... but for a company I'd worked for in the dim and distant past, so at least I was able to level with my old boss, point out that I was very rusty, and that I'd probably have to ask questions. I knew very well that I'd been given the contract for other reasons - like availability now and attention to detail (especially with messy drawings with errors in them as these were), so was able to offer to work on a fixed price instead of hourly rate as I'd done for them in the past

 

I did as much as I could, took a day in their office, and got the glitches ironed out. When it came to my invoice, he offered to add to the agreed price for that extra day

 

as somebody at least experienced in producing drawings quickly, stick your finger in the air, have a wild guess, add 50%, ask them if that's acceptable, and negotiate down from there, but aim not to fall below your finger in the air price

 

do you know why you were recommended for this?

Because of my solid drafting skills and tool and die making experience (I failed to mention I was a tool maker for my fathers injection molding business before I went to college.)

One more thing about this drawing. This packet I received from the patent office that he gave me gives no dimensions hardly at all. All I know is the rotor on the first drawing is to be 6"x10" and the recesses on the rotor have to be 18* apart and I have to design the rest for optimum efficiency.

I could offer you an idea on what it would take me to design this but that would not be fair to you.

Think about how you would eat an elephant - one bite at a time. So examine each part and figure your time involvement for each part, maybe an average of 1-1 1/2 hours per detail? (not including commercial items)

If you are only creating a 3d Model then that is much easier than needing to precisely detail. But you also mention design for optimum efficiency and to be run in a CAD/CAM application. This sounds like he intends to make the parts from your model and therefore things get much more dicey.

I could offer you an idea on what it would take me to design this but that would not be fair to you.

 

Think about how you would eat an elephant - one bite at a time. So examine each part and figure your time involvement for each part, maybe an average of 1-1 1/2 hours per detail? (not including commercial items)

 

If you are only creating a 3d Model then that is much easier than needing to precisely detail. But you also mention design for optimum efficiency and to be run in a CAD/CAM application. This sounds like he intends to make the parts from your model and therefore things get much more dicey.

Yes...I could design this thing for an assembly drawing in no time flat...but doing a CAD/CAM model is where my experience gets thin.

You could "flat rate" it and hope that you don't spend so many hours on the drawings that you end up working for 25 cents an hour. Or you can bill by the hour with a "not to exceed" limit. If you reach that limit and the drawings are not done then it is time to renegotiate.

that sure is a tough one. Do you have to do the NC programming as well?

The thing that worries me is the "design for efficiency" part. Especially since this file will be used for the final product. Looking at the sketches above it looks to me like there will be some 4th axis NC programming which adds a whole new dimensions.

If all the numbers were given i would feel comfortable with getting that drawing done in a day(add another for a buffer). Adding in design work on top of that. Id say a week is a reasonable estimate to get things right. Another couple days for NC programming.

If I were in your position I think I would ask for 80hrs design/drawing time but charge for actual time because it very well may take a lot less time. The problem really is in the details. Since you will be using acad07 you wont really have a way to check the assembly can actually be assembled and make sure everything works properly. I would ask for another $500 to get a 3d print of the parts to check fitment/assembly.

Just so you know in my line of work i draw/design, NC, and manufacture the parts.

I could offer you an idea on what it would take me to design this but that would not be fair to you.

 

Think about how you would eat an elephant - one bite at a time. So examine each part and figure your time involvement for each part, maybe an average of 1-1 1/2 hours per detail? (not including commercial items)

 

If you are only creating a 3d Model then that is much easier than needing to precisely detail. But you also mention design for optimum efficiency and to be run in a CAD/CAM application. This sounds like he intends to make the parts from your model and therefore things get much more dicey.

Well Patrick you were right on the money...it took me 1.5 hrs to design the largest part, the rotor,...Now I have to figure out what to charge him for that hour and a half.

that sure is a tough one. Do you have to do the NC programming as well?

 

The thing that worries me is the "design for efficiency" part. Especially since this file will be used for the final product. Looking at the sketches above it looks to me like there will be some 4th axis NC programming which adds a whole new dimensions.

 

If all the numbers were given i would feel comfortable with getting that drawing done in a day(add another for a buffer). Adding in design work on top of that. Id say a week is a reasonable estimate to get things right. Another couple days for NC programming.

 

 

If I were in your position I think I would ask for 80hrs design/drawing time but charge for actual time because it very well may take a lot less time. The problem really is in the details. Since you will be using acad07 you wont really have a way to check the assembly can actually be assembled and make sure everything works properly. I would ask for another $500 to get a 3d print of the parts to check fitment/assembly.

 

Just so you know in my line of work i draw/design, NC, and manufacture the parts.

No thank God....my knowledge of FANUC language left me years ago.

Well Patrick you were right on the money...it too me 1.5 hrs to design the largest part, the rotor,...Now I have to figure out what to charge him for that hour and a half.

Heh Heh... Time is my domain. Realize that your detail (view representation, dimensioning, annotation, etc) time now can easily double that - it all hinges on your level of experience with AutoCAD's tools, as only you know.

I won't offer up the tme I'm guessing I would take to do that part but I've long ago put into place a system that makes me extremely efficiciency and rewards my knowledge, skills, and abilities as well as provides a fair price to my customers.

You could "flat rate" it and hope that you don't spend so many hours on the drawings that you end up working for 25 cents an hour. Or you can bill by the hour with a "not to exceed" limit. If you reach that limit and the drawings are not done then it is time to renegotiate.

My problem is I have nothing to compare it too. Nothing to look back on and say, "well it took me this long to draw that"...... Thats why I was asking yall to maybe give me a ballbark on a timeframe or cost. I just dont have that much experience drawing models...I can do it, but it just takes me a little longer.

B, in your note you mentioned the recesses need to be 18* apart? this makes for 20 recesses per revolution on the block. are these different from the parts shown or have drawn? 18* apart on a 6x10 rotor is what i have modeled here. These are the kinds of details that can really blow modeling time out of the water.

B, in your note you mentioned the recesses need to be 18* apart? this makes for 20 recesses per revolution on the block. are these different from the parts shown or have drawn? 18* apart on a 6x10 rotor is what i have modeled here. These are the kinds of details that can really blow modeling time out of the water.

The second variation called for the 18* the first variation called for 45*

B, in your note you mentioned the recesses need to be 18* apart? this makes for 20 recesses per revolution on the block. are these different from the parts shown or have drawn? 18* apart on a 6x10 rotor is what i have modeled here. These are the kinds of details that can really blow modeling time out of the water.

How did you draw that so fast? Did you use Inventor?

You see this is what I am talking about...it takes me some time because I just am not used to it.