3d Drafting inserting a round window! Help!

Allright it's been all afternoon, trying to insert a 6' diam window and 3d face doesn't cut it, I couldn't get the wall to extrude so that I could subtract the window, I tried offsetting it, I tried everything but throwing the computer out the fn window! I'm using 2004 and hate it! I tried a version of the Google Sketch up and they took all the best of CAD and made it simple to use! Why can't I just plug window in! It's the biggest pain in the a__ just to PUT IN A WINDOW! Common, 3dface is a lame function, time consuming and limited! Help, I need to figure out some way to do this. Using thickness to raise walls didn't help I couldn't taper them for a 3/12 shed style roof. Anyone have any ideas, I could use it!

Thanx for the time.-D:oops:

be calm AKRider.Are your walls a closed polygon?If not, draw first a closed polygon for your wall.Then extrude the wall into the height wanted.Then you can draw your circular window to the face of the wall then extrude the window. and lastly subtract the window from the wall.

These dwg were done by using the 3/12 pitch to drive the rack wall line and then the 3dface was used to be able to hidethe wall. This is not my usual approach. I normally use thickness or extrude, but this has not worked out for me and the method you gave me brought about the same response. I should be able to see the circle on the other side and I was unable to see through the wall, shading, hiding, etc... Any suggestions?

Tutorial questions 1.dwg

Tutorial questions 2.dwg

Common, 3dface is a lame function, time consuming and limited!

That is why I never used the older surface tools rather than solids tools.

Should be trivially easy with solid extrude.

In later versions presspull will do the job and the surface tools are more powerful as well.

Sometimes I think we just make things harder on ourselves then they have to be. I punched an opening through your wall with no problem. Locating it was easy.

Why are you using 3Dfaces? I think it just complicates things.

... I tried a version of the Google Sketch up and they took all the best of CAD and made it simple to use!

Might be OK for conceptual "pretty picture" stuff but is anyone using SketchUp for serious documentation?

We're all impressed with you and your tallent, how about how you did it? Whats better than 3dface to, you some splaining to do! I tried every thing, never came out with a transparent window and please give me insight into a better way to deal with 3d rake walls.

Thanx oh omnipiatant one!

Sarcasim is unbecoming in a professional envirnment.

Review the prior posts. You will note the suggestion to create a solid (rather than a surface). You do this by creating the wall profile as a polyline. Note: create this as a rectangle - not a polyline with a width. So for a wall that is 6" "thick" x 10' "long" make a poly rectangle 6x120. Now EXTRUDE the poly rectangle to the "height you need. This creates a solid body. Now you will create your circular window.

Reorient the UCS so that the xy plane is parallel to the wall. Draw a circle to the dia. you need and position in the location you need. EXTRUDE the circle to the the wall thickness and the SUBTRACT it from the wall.

If you are not familiar with the solids commands look them up in help and experiment.

A last word of advice - if working in 3d always keep your UCS Icon on.

Good luck

AKRider...5 posts. I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and say it was just your frustration coming through in your remarks. Sound fair?

How did I do it?

For starters I used solids just like many other forum members would have. As I said locating the window was easy. I just reoriented my UCS, drew a circle using the 36" radius and moved it into the correct position. I then extruded the window. Next, I used the polyline command to trace out the perimeter of the wall and extruded that as well. Finally, I subtratced the circle from the wall to obtain the opening.

Does that explanation answer your questions?

Allright guys, please forgive me if I was being curt. I spent most of an evening and afternoon trying to figure out if it was me or the computer. Me! I tried every combination you you gave as examples before asking you the quetions. I drew polylines in succession and didn't use the rectangle / polygon function. Mistake! I have been taught to elevate walls with thickness for architectural walls, being able to raise them right off the 2D Planview. This raises an issue when you get to the roof line and racked walls? Is this the only resolution to extrude walls, creating solid structures for this elevation?

Once again thanx for putting up with my frustration, I get sensitive when I feel the Jimmy Fallon mentality peering over my shoulder. I joined this Forum for a reason, you all are the poop and your experience and wisdom is invaluable.

That being said if you're in the neighborhood and want some help fishing or backcountry boarding in AK get in touch. Take care. -Doug

Wall practice.dwg

Racked walls? You mean walls that are at an angle?

I mean't to say raked wall, contruction term for walls at angles, sorry.

Thanx again for the info you were a big help!-D

Rider, Auto Cad doesn't really have a prefab shaped geometric solid object(primitive) that can make the raking walls in one operation. You could use the box command(a primitive) for the bottom part of the wall and then use the wedge command(another primitive) to create the to angled section. Once both shapes are drawn and aligned you can use the union command to make them into a single solid object.

However, my personal choice would be to draw the entire outline of the wall using polylines instead of regular lines. Drawn like that it becomes a closed polyline which can then be extruded to your wall thickness in the full triangle shape.

If you draw a practice wall both ways you will see that the polyline method requires fewer steps.

Takes a while to get used to the methods used to make 3 dimensional solid objects that are not pure primitives such as box,wedge,sphere etc are. The Boolean commands like union and subtract become second nature after a while.

When I draw projects such as yours I always have a calculator open and I use the "snap from" object snap command frequently. For instance when I was ready to add the circular window I would hit the circle command and then "snap from"....I would then pick a known point on the wall and then enter the coordinates to the center of the circle "from that point".

Such as; @50,48,0 "enter".

Now your circle is drawn at the correct location and since it is a poly...you can extrude it to your wall thickness and use subtract to remove it and pierce the wall.

I hope none of this seems condescending as I have no idea of your experience and I hope it helps to know the little things someone else does.

That is why I never used the older surface tools rather than solids tools.

This brings up a good point... are there any good advantages of surface modelling over solid modelling? When I realized I'd be doing 3D AutoCAD five months ago, I got some books from the library and they all seemed to start with surface modelling. Like it was a building block to solid modelling, which I knew to be my final goal from my previous work as a product engineer (even though I had never done it myself personally). But then I got into the chapters on solid modelling, and realized that learning surface modelling first was pretty much a waste of my time. I mean, lines, circles, offset, etc... these are all commands that let you do your sketch that leads to the eventually solid model, but I've never done a thing with surface models since. Like someone said, the surface models make pretty pictures, and I assume might be smaller files. But if you have the ability to work the larger files, a solid model also makes a nice picture.

Reading this thread, I just got wondering....

Reading this thread, I just got wondering....

I think it has a lot to do with the history of CAD - how the author first learned. Most books start of like a first grader connecting dots (grid and snap). I turned that off in my second class back in 1987.

I suspect since the OP in this thread named the files Tutorial*.dwg that this is what is causing the confusion - just trying to follow the book instructions to create 3DFace while everyone here is saying use solids.

We went from 2D to 3D wireframe. Later 3D was surfaces. And finally the technology progressed to 3D solids modeling. So the CAD is taught along the same progression.

Interestingly, there are sometimes complex, curvy, organic shapes that can't be modeled (with current) solids modeling tools. Even Loft won't get you there. So the model is developed with a composite of solids and surfacing tools. (see the tutorials in my signature) I predict in the next couple of years that will all change. (and to an extent already has - see the Mesh toolbar in AutoCAD 2010) All that is needed is a method to skip the subdivision mesh in freeform solid modeling.

I've been giving some thought to your question regarding how to construct a raked wall and I have come up with a second approach. I do NOT claim that this is the best way to do it. It is only another way of accomplishing the task.

If you view the attached image you'll see on the far left I have reconstructed just one wall of the house. A simple 2D plan comprised of a single polyline. To the right of it I have extruded the wa11 about 18'-0". The single (reddish) line across the face of the wall is set at the proper height and angle. To the right of that I have extruded the line about 60". An extrusion of a simple line creates a surface. This is important because the last wall on the right shows the results of using the Slice command with the Surface option. I elected to retain the portion of the wall below the surface. All one needs to do at this point is erase the surface.

I hope this is of some value to you.

By the way, when I was copying and editting a portion of your geometry I noticed a couple of things. Your rake angle is 345.9638 (decimal readout to 4 places). I would have expected a even 345 deg. Some of your walls are made up of multiple lines and some of those lines overlap each other. This is not good when it comes to extruding as AutoCAD may report some kind of error.

Just some things to keep in mind when you are designing. I say this in the form of constructive criticism and no offense is meant by it. We all strive to do the very best we can. I know I do and I think you do as well.

An extrusion of a simple line creates a surface. This is important because the last wall on the right shows the results of using the Slice command with the Surface option.

Rider indicates using 2004. No Extrude line or Slice with surface.

Dang! OK. Listen up folks. Everybody has to upgrade so I stop making a fool of myself and suggesting commands you don't have!:lol:

Thanks JDM. :oops:

Ok...this is kind of fun and i am learning a few new things along the way!

Likewise I am not saying this is the only way or the fastest or the best way...just a way.

In fact I hope the more experienced will weigh in.

Below I have drawn the exterior wall plan with a zero thickness polyline and then offset it inside by the wall thickness. I wanted to use polylines with preset wall thickness to avoid extra work but I don't know how to do it without a bunch of adding and subtracting wall and half wall thickness in order to draw the actuall wall lengths from the original drawings.

In the second screen shot I extruded both polylines to the height of the tallest side of the "rake".