Text, dimensions and notes in paper space

Ok, so I'm just about sold on the idea of putting all of my annotation in paper space. So far I have used paper space for layout, but all objects, text, dimensions etc. are drawn in model space.

The main advantage I see with all annotation in PS is that I can just have one "base" drawing no matter what scale I'm presenting in. Right now I have different base drawings for 1/4" = 1'-0", 1/8" = 1'-0" etc. and the same thing for Site plan base sheets. I'm always updating the base drawing notes etc., but it's a huge pain to update all of them and it doesn't really ever happen.

So my question is what do other people here do about your standard notes? Do they live/exist only in layout space? Do you xref them in from another drawing?

One thing I like about keeping my notes and schedules in model space is, for example, I have a hardware legend that I often put on more than one structural sheet, but it's only one schedule that exists in model space, but shows in the viewport on multiple sheets - this way it's always consistent between sheets. This has worked for me, but it doesn't seem like it makes sense if all of my other annotation is in layout space.

So anyway, I'm very interested to hear what works for other people.

Thanks for any help

I place all my text, notes, dimensions and title block information in my layout and have done so for quite some time without problem. Your other option is to seriously consider adopting annotation scaling. I've tried it, I understand it, I can see where it could be useful for some professions but I have no need for it in my job. I like the fact I don't have to deal with scalelists and the handful of system variables that go along with annotation scaling. Makes my life just a bit easier but it is not for everyone. Each person must choose what works best for their particular situation.

In civil work, we use legends to identify various types of utility lines, e.g. sewer, water, electric. I like to put my legends in model space, for two reasons. One is, as you say, to keep the information consistent. If you have multiple copies of the same information, the chance of errors goes up exponentially.

The other reason is for a different kind of consistency. If I later change the linetype or color of a type of line, I change it once for the layer, and the legend updates automatically. If I have to override a property for some reason, I can Select All on that layer, and I select the legend line automatically. When you prepare for changes, especially the kind that come up at the last minute, you avoid some of the panic attacks that go with them.

This technique works very well for Architectural drawings that usually only have one view per layout. It dosen't work well for shop drawings, where you might have lots of broken sections.

Look into the sheet set manager, and don't forget that you can x-ref into paper space.

Yeah, I'm thinking that the best setup for me is probably going to be to do dimensions and call outs etc. in layout space, but keep my notes, schedules and legends and maybe even my border in model space - either that or xref that stuff in from a separate drawing, but that just seems like too much back and forth. I'm starting to do more 3D and it seems wrong to have notes etc. floating around while I'm in 3D orbit, but of course those layers can be turned off and if that's what works best for me, then that's what I'll probably do.

I haven't used the sheet set manager at all yet, so I'll have to look into it. No idea what that does.

The sheet set manager automates the process of laying out X-reff'd views onto drawing sheets. You can keep all your model data in one 'Master file' (2D or 3D) - create a 'View' (Layer settings and so on are remembered) - and then 'paste' this view into separate drawing file. You would add your annotations here. The nice thing is that the sheet set manager can also automatically add your view titles, as well as adding Hyperlinks to call outs so that you can navigate your project easily.

On a different note - if you really want to get flash you could pull your notes, schedules and legends in from a database or spread sheet!

If you intend to use layouts then do not put your titleblock and border in model space.

Hmmm, the sheet set manager sounds good - not sure when I'll get to start playing around with that.

Ok, so I will probably put the border and title block in layout space. The only reason I was thinking not to is for the same reason as putting the schedules and notes in model space...consistency is ensured.

Now, what about electrical plan symbols such as lights and switches? Is that considered annotation that should go in layout space? Seems like kind of a gray area especially because sometimes there will be a bit of text along with a symbol, but on the other hand they are representing "real" objects in the model...

I'd put the light and switch symbols in model space.

Put anything in model space that represents a real object in the building or that you want to share with your colleagues or consultants (ie, grids, match lines). Put dimensions and notes in paper space.

Personally, all of my drawing is done in modelspace and all of my annotations (dimensions, notes, leaders, etc.) are done in paperspace. Gives me a cleaner working area, and I don't have to worry about constantly changing the annotation scale or trying to hide dimensions from one view when I need to use the same geometry in another view.

I knew there was a reason I thought this guy ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ was smart.

Who is ^ ^ ^ ^ ^? Kind of an unusual screen name...

Ok, major reason to NOT have text/notes in model space: 3D orbit will not work well at all.

I brought some notes in to the model space and afterwards it took several minutes to finish "formatting text" (as it said in the lower left hand corner) and regenerate the drawing whenever I tried to use 3D orbit.

Personally, all of my drawing is done in modelspace and all of my annotations (dimensions, notes, leaders, etc.) are done in paperspace. Gives me a cleaner working area, and I don't have to worry about constantly changing the annotation scale or trying to hide dimensions from one view when I need to use the same geometry in another view.

What happens if you have to shift/rotate your viewport or the drawing becomes corrupt and the only fix is to insert it into a new drawing (losing all data in layouts)?

I think I'll stick with just putting legends, titleblocks and notes in paper.

What happens if you have to shift/rotate your viewport or the drawing becomes corrupt and the only fix is to insert it into a new drawing (losing all data in layouts)?

Then I just shift or rotate my viewport. If the drawing becomes corrupt, I just go back to a previous save or autosave file and go from there. I've been doing it that way for over 10 years now, and I haven't had one problem with it.

I think I'll stick with just putting legends, titleblocks and notes in paper.

Hey, whatever works for you. I never said my way was the only way. If that's they way you do it and you've been successful with it, then who am I to tell you to change?

Then I just shift or rotate my viewport. If the drawing becomes corrupt, I just go back to a previous save or autosave file and go from there. I've been doing it that way for over 10 years now, and I haven't had one problem with it.

 

 

 

Hey, whatever works for you. I never said my way was the only way. If that's they way you do it and you've been successful with it, then who am I to tell you to change?

So now on to construction details...

It would be nice to have all construction details drawn to scale in model space and then brought into layout space for dimensions, annotations etc., BUT that seems like a pain if I'm going to reuse them for other drawings because I would have to copy - paste the model stuff and then separately copy paste the layout space annotation and then make sure it all lines up correctly.

Perhaps doing it all in model space with the new annotative scaling features of AutoCAD is the way to go, but I haven't messed around with that at all and I don't know how it would work out. My thoughts are that I often want to make a detail as large as I can to fit into a given space and it may not be able to be "to scale" and it's my understanding that the annotative dimensions wouldn't work in this case.

Any thoughts/suggestions?

I have a few blocks that are both dynamic AND have annotative scaled dimensions and notes. Usually, the blocks will fit on a sheet in either 3/4"=1' or 1"=1' scale, depending on how tall they are (can be as short as 96" or as tall as 192") so I added annotative properties for both scales. I have these on my Tool Palette and I can add them to any drawing with all of the necessary details to build them.

Do not draw your details, to scale, in model space unless you are a drafting board and doing them in ink on mylar. You're a Cad Monkey now not a draftsman. There is a difference.