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MEP pipe drawings, Learning to crawl, can't walk yet... Trying to think ahead


DIW_HDsupply

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I am very new to MEP, and was hired to draw shop drawings for pipe. I am currently going through the tutorial book Aubin Academy Master Series AutoCAD MEP 2011. I'm at page 500 of 702. I am trying to plan for the future... and I have a simple question..

 

When I layout 3d pipe and then tag it I am anticipating creating a schedule for the Bill of Materials. I am hoping to make this as simple as clicking on a pipe in the toolbar- drawing the pipe and then adding a schedule from the toolbar. However I need the schedule to Populate all the information for the order... pipe coatings.. pipe finish... Pipe Supplier Make... Guaged (formula; pipe legnth

 

May even need to specify gaskets and boltsets for flanged fittings.

 

Is it possible to create a tool pallet that will facilitate this, or is it just not that simple?

 

I'm not looing for a yes, no answer.. more over I'm looking for discussion so I can understand how to bend MEP to my will... or at least work within it's rules.

 

DIW

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It's definitely possible but you're in for an enormous amount of prep work. You will have to basically create all the information prior to each cataloged part, fitting, pipe, etcetera, then take the time to set up the schedules so they pick up the information you want to display. However, the downfall is and always has been - length of pipe. This is just awful since you can't consolidate all cut lengths into one quantified row. If you're looking for individual cut lengths then you can do that very easily but your schedule will become extremely lengthy in the process.

 

What you will find is that you'll get by with just what you need and not what you want. Just quantify things for a BOM then manually add details in an excel spreadsheet. That's the way I do it. I let MEP populate everything, then I classify the details of the fittings, materials, etc. It's more of an aid than a complete BOM system.

 

Also, I find myself using QSELECT a lot to help organize my schedules when I use them. I wish there was a way to use Wildcard selections on schedules so it grabs only the information you want, which would automate the current manual way of doing things. You'll learn to love schedules and despise them at the same time. They'll get you REALLY close to exactly what you want, then let you down when you can't get them to work precisely how you need. Bittersweet nonetheless.

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Unfortunatly,

This is exactly why the company purchased MEP, and they want a tailored setup so other CAD tech's under me will be able to just sit down and draw/model. We will be dealing with a limited number of pipe, fitting, and valve companies. And what the company is trying to avoid, is excell spread sheets. They are trying to avoid the simple fat finger mistakes that can happen when data is not entered correctly.

 

Again, this is why they purchased MEP. (befor hiring me) The companies rather crude understanding when purchased was that all the information I spoke of would be stored in the model, and thus displayed in the schedule.

 

I'm not afraid of a challeng, but as I have come to understand (some) differences between autocad and MEP, I have to be forthright and say this is vastly more complex than i could have anticipated. This is both good and bad.

 

My managers will not appreciate me telling them that I will have to manually enter data. I.E. inviting the errors they are hoping (and have spent money) to avoid.

 

2nd question

Is it better to use existing pipe parts and use styles to designate make and model in the BOM? I'm thinking long term, and imagining dooing multiple shop drawing sets/day. Or will I have to build parts catalogs for make and model pipe?

 

Keep in mind, we are not engineering the pipe/pipelines. Engineers will have already designed and specified components and pipe runs. Essentially we are providing a detailed modeled version of their design. (shop drawings)

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Addressing the issu of BOM legnth... again, we are and have to be detailed, so the legnth of the BOM, is not an issue. The clarity and accuracy of the data is. The company will have estimators on site to assist the CAD techs when questions arise, and over time the CAD techs will learn, but training is not going to be applied in the form of product information, whichis why we are looking to set toolbars, (possibly catalogs) and schedules in advance.

 

If need be, we can start by restricting the development of shop drawings to one brand of pipe, clasification, and connection and slowly expand as the whole process becomes more familiar.

 

I do not have the luxury of doing 2d work and slowly integrating the MEP software.. it's an all or nothing situation.

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Unfortunatly,Keep in mind, we are not engineering the pipe/pipelines. Engineers will have already designed and specified components and pipe runs. Essentially we are providing a detailed modeled version of their design. (shop drawings)

Yes I know. I'm in the same exact boat. I work for a mechanical contractor, not an engineering firm.

 

2nd question

Is it better to use existing pipe parts and use styles to designate make and model in the BOM? I'm thinking long term, and imagining dooing multiple shop drawing sets/day. Or will I have to build parts catalogs for make and model pipe?

Yes and no, but more on the yes side. You can simply open a part and do a "Save As", then name it whatever manufacturer you want, model, etc. This is what I do. Like, when I use NIBCO Butterfly Valves, I just copied the high performance lugged default butterfly valve in the stock catalog, saved it as NIBCO, and manually adjusted the dimensions for accurate face to face spool dimensions for fabrication. Or, just copy the Pipe Catalog and rename/re-enter data. Fittings... same thing.

 

We will be dealing with a limited number of pipe, fitting, and valve companies. And what the company is trying to avoid, is excell spread sheets. They are trying to avoid the simple fat finger mistakes that can happen when data is not entered correctly.
Like it said, it's definitely doable, but there are certain things you will have to forfeit for this to work, such as bolt sets and gaskets. Personally, I manually add my bolt sets for each job just by taking each flange to flange connection and multiplying times two. But there's no way for me to automatically put in that info unless I was to create a MvPart and copy/paste it where needed but man, that's just too much trouble.

 

Like I said, it's bittersweet. You will get about 80%-90% of what you want out of the schedules, most of which is very useful. But AMEP is not a "BOM" software so it's hard for it to automate every last bolt, washer, and screw. It can, however, be turned into one with custom programming but then you're talking additional expenses for someone who can do the job. Then it will truly be a tailored fit for your company.

 

I'm not afraid of a challeng, but as I have come to understand (some) differences between autocad and MEP, I have to be forthright and say this is vastly more complex than i could have anticipated. This is both good and bad.
This is a good perspective to have because once you get the hang of it you'll never go back to plain AutoCAD, but the endeavor is massive. I'm still learning things day in day out and I've been on MEP since it was ABS is '07.
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Addressing the issu of BOM legnth... again, we are and have to be detailed, so the legnth of the BOM, is not an issue. The clarity and accuracy of the data is. The company will have estimators on site to assist the CAD techs when questions arise, and over time the CAD techs will learn, but training is not going to be applied in the form of product information, whichis why we are looking to set toolbars, (possibly catalogs) and schedules in advance.

 

If need be, we can start by restricting the development of shop drawings to one brand of pipe, clasification, and connection and slowly expand as the whole process becomes more familiar.

 

I do not have the luxury of doing 2d work and slowly integrating the MEP software.. it's an all or nothing situation.

PM me your email and I'll send you a file with a BOM count and cut lengths of pipe for a recent job, just so you can monkey with it. If you want that is.

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  • 4 months later...

- i have finised my supply, drain water for 4 floors construction, i drawn by auto cad mep and now i want to count the length of each pipe, each fixture. Any body can help me? Thanks.

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TUANVKT,

Are you still having trouble with this....

If you want to generate an atomated schedule the first thing you need to do is create a Property Set Definition for you table. These are like "Variables" you will attach to your models that will post datat to your schedule.

 

Nest you will want to create a schedule and "apply all property sets"

 

Then you can tag your model in a view.

 

This is not terribly hard, but we need to know more about your skillset with MEP.. did you build the model in one single construct or did you break it up into levels?

Let me know if you still need assistance. I know the above is fairly generalized, but you'll have to forgive me, I don't know how much you know.

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Hi, i can make schedule for my supply, drain, sewer water dwg, i drawn these Dwgs in blumping workspace, but in this Space the qualities are not exactly as i require (schedule doesn't inclue elbow,... and pipes when they have different elevations), so i must use piping to complete my Dwgs, but i have some difficults with connections from Fixtures to Main Pipes (ex: how to connect from WC or Lav to Main Pipe). Can you show me the way to complete these works. Thanks.

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I would use the Piping Workspace instead. The plumbing workspace is 2D schematic only. The piping workspace also accommodates to plumbing as well, but includes the 3D pipes, parts, and fittings you need for scheduling and routing.

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  • 3 weeks later...
i agree with stykface...

after i finished my drawing (in plumbing) i want to add length (m) of each pipes in my drawing. But i can't find any label tool to do this. How can i perfect this? Any body can help me? Thanks.

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Label Curves and Schedule Tags are going to be detailed in the AutoCAD Architecture User Guide, since that's what AutoCAD MEP "objects" are built from. Here's a link: http://exchange.autodesk.com/autocadarchitecture/enu/pdf-documentation

 

I found what you need on page 3,757. You'll need to create a Schedule Tag, not a Label Curve if you're wanting to show the length of the object.

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sorry StykFacE, i just read the document you send me. But i think that document only wrote about schedule, not Pipe Length when i drawn by plumbing. If i drawn that pipe in piping every thing is possible but in plumbing i can't do that. heer! I am mad.

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sorry StykFacE, i just read the document you send me. But i think that document only wrote about schedule, not Pipe Length when i drawn by plumbing. If i drawn that pipe in piping every thing is possible but in plumbing i can't do that. heer! I am mad.

The Plumbing Workspace shouldn't be used to begin with if you're wanting accurate pipe lengths. The Piping Workspace gives you what you're ultimately wanting. You can still use the Piping workspace for 1-Line plumbing drawings too.

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Oh my god, i have been using cad mep for 4 months, so i don't know much. i am living in Viet Nam (Ho Chi Minh City), in our country, we always used auto cad to perfect our Projects, so i have much difficult when I use Autocad Mep. If I drawn my Drawing in Piping Workspace I have some prolems:

- I have difficult to drawn pipes from Drain Pipe, Sewage Pipe ... to Fixtures (WC, Lav, Unirals, Sinks....).

- Example, when i connect WC to sewage Pipe, i always use Wye or 45 elbows, but the program often connects by 90 elbows or by the directions i don't expect.

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Oh my god, i have been using cad mep for 4 months, so i don't know much. i am living in Viet Nam (Ho Chi Minh City), in our country, we always used auto cad to perfect our Projects, so i have much difficult when I use Autocad Mep. If I drawn my Drawing in Piping Workspace I have some prolems:

- I have difficult to drawn pipes from Drain Pipe, Sewage Pipe ... to Fixtures (WC, Lav, Unirals, Sinks....).

- Example, when i connect WC to sewage Pipe, i always use Wye or 45 elbows, but the program often connects by 90 elbows or by the directions i don't expect.

Do you have any ideals?

Do you have any Lisp to write the lengths of every pipes in Plumping? (example: L=3.5m..., the alignment of Text follow the Pipe).

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I don't think it's possible what you're trying to do with Plumbing lines. You'll have to use Piping no matter what.

 

Out of curiosity I drew some plumbing lines then I drew some piping lines. The plumbing lines have no Property Set Data information attached to it. The piping lines do, however, which allows you to add automatic annotative tools such as lengths, system abbreviations, line sizes, etc. I hate to the the bearer of bad news but the plumbing workspace is simply not designed to have the vast functionality that the piping workspace has. I'm afraid that for you to accomplish your goals you will have to pick up the Piping Workspace and learn to design in it.

 

It will take time, it took a long time for me but once you get the hang of it you'll find it's extremely useful. Stick around this board for any and all other questions if you decide to adopt the Piping Workspace and I will help you as much as I can, along with a few others on this board.

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