Subscription. Worth the cost?

Been a Subscription member since it was first offered. Thought it was a good idea but now I'm having my doubts. Have to make up my mind quickly as our renewal date is August 2nd. Nice to have the latest edition available but it has lost its allure. Anyone else here contemplating the same thing? Or, maybe you already kicked that can down the road? Your thoughts and comments appreciated. Thanks.

Signed,

Not-too-sure-anymore

Well, subscription is good because it's the cheapest option in the end. If you upgrade every year, bi-yearly, etc... you end up spending more. Autodesk is a super monopoly and that's how they lock you in by giving you a discount to be on subscription. The marketing behind subscription is beyond sub-par in my opinion. For the price of the software, most of the "subscription support" should be offered anyways. For instance, the Duct Transition Utility for AutoCAD MEP is by subscription only. Someone explain to me WHY THAT'S NOT A DEFAULT TOOL?!? Boggles my mind.

But, if you do your own research Mark, you will find out that it cost your company cheaper to be on subscription, even if you don't install the yearly updated release of AutoCAD because at some point you have to upgrade.

I did the calculation for my company and with current prices, being on subscription for Civil 3D remains more cost effective until I upgrade only every ninth year. I have taken out a three year subscription and get a 10% reduction in the cost of my subscription. We can also write off the cost the of subscription against tax, which is a hidden benefit for subscription. But as with Tannar there are things that are available from Autodesk for Civil 3D that you only get as a subscription customer. We also get freebies and reduced prices on training etc from our Autodesk dealer, which non subscription customers do not get.

The thing that I find nauseating at the moment are the Suites on offer from Autodesk, where you get several Autodesk products for a single subscription, for example AutoCAD, MAP, Civil 3D, 3Ds Max and Navisworks. But the extra programms are not necessarily the full versions, because there are different levels of subscription for the Suites and it is only in the "Ultimate" version that you get the full versions, I didn't ask about the price. Good news being you get it free (read the small print: but only until your next subscription renewal and then a hefty 47% hike in you subscription). I was bombarded with emails from Autodesk, various Autodesk dealers and post from numerous sources together with a telephone call from Autodesk. All of them played up the free part of participating and none of them specifically mentioned the increase in cost at the next renewal. Our dealer did a seminar on the Suites and really tried to do a hard sell on them to the point of almost saying there was no alternative, we had to take a Suite. It was only when I asked the specific question if I could stay as I am with my next subscription renewal that he meekly said that I could and only from further questioning did we find out that there would be no price increase. Albeit the price remains the same, I now get less for my money as before, as previously MAP was a part of Civil 3D but not any more. I feel it is a rip off through the back door and Autodesk is once again using its monopoly to extract even more money from us. BricsCAD becomes even more attractive.

When I was in charge of this for my employer, the subscription thing didn't exist at the time. We'd upgrade every time a new version was released until 13. After that fiasco, we did move to 14, then every 2 years after that, as well as making the change to MDT. Left there went to a company that was 2 releases behind the current, then was out of it altogether for a couple years. Got back in at the "dinosaur" as I refer to it, and all of that was handled at the corporate level. While working there I purchased at copy of ADT2007 at a discounted price because the next version was about to hit. That put me 3 versions ahead of my employer (who had 300,000 employees world wide). After leaving there, and realizing that the little company i'd gone to work for was doomed, I took enough from savings to get my copy of 2010. They weren't upgrading 2007 at that point, so I wound up with both, as they were purchased as stand alone. The reseller mentioned a subscription but I didn't completely understand how it worked, and prefered to have something that I didn't have to worry about. No, I don't get the so-called support that folks on subscription get, but if I so choose, 10 years from now i can still be working as I am with no further outlay. It may be that I simply don't understand the subscription thing, but I much prefer the stand alone license. It may be more money, but at least I am in control of what I do and when with regard to upgrades.

Autodesk support is pretty useless in my opinion. They either don't have a solution for you or take too long to respond.

We use the subscription service (it is not up to me) so get the latest versions each year.

But as with Tannar there are things that are available from Autodesk for Civil 3D that you only get as a subscription customer.

What features would those be?

We cancelled our subscription when we realized that the latest version of LT was too resource hungry for our machines. We then found out that we were only allowed to install the last version we had paid for i.e. the one that doesn't work on our machines. Nice. The whole idea was to cancel the subsciption so we could afford new machines but as you would expect that hasn't happened .

I think that if you have the cash flow to buy the subscription three years in advance (to get the maximum discount) it is probably going to be the cheapest option (you don't have to install every release).

If you don't have the cash flow, you might find it cheaper to upgrade every three years or more. Everyone has to do the sums for themselves.

What you are really buying with Subscriptions is a fixed cost (good for the accountants cash flow predictions). After all, if you don't buy on superscription, there is no garentee that the prices will remain the same over the next three years...

Subscription prices inch steadily upwards each year. It is a way for AutoCAD to even out their revenue stream.

We produce drawings primarily for in-house use and seldom, if ever, share drawings with outside firms.

Most of our vendors are using older versions of AutoCAD. We have one tank fabricating company that is still using AutoCAD 2000 and doing all their work in model space and drafting it much the same way one would do on a drafting board. Tried to get them to use Layouts and they refused.

What features would those be?

We get country kits which are libraries of sub-assemblies and details that are used here in Germany and other things that are relevant to D-A-CH (Germany- Austria - Switzerland) all in German. Also:

product extensions for the import and export of data to the various German Standards.

Subscription Advantage Packs.

Subscription Bonus Packs.

GENIO import/export extension.

Free access to Autodesk University and the training material they have.

Then we get free from our dealer:

Seminars and training once a month on a current topic (7:30 to 9:30), with breakfast thrown in.

Various other half day traing courses and presentations.

All normal training courses with up to 50% off the normal price.

Various styles for Civil 3D and other products based on local requirements.

Linetypes used locally.

Product support and sorting out of problems.

Materials etc for rendering.

Block and symbol libraries.

All the things from our dealer are also available for non-subscription customers, but they have to pay for them.

We get zilch from our dealer. Then he wonders why the only thing we do is order software through him and nothing more.

We get zilch from our dealer. Then he wonders why the only thing we do is order software through him and nothing more.

Exactly the same for us...

It sounds like a subscription is quite beneficial for you Tyke.

Subscription prices inch steadily upwards each year. It is a way for AutoCAD to even out their revenue stream.

 

We produce drawings primarily for in-house use and seldom, if ever, share drawings with outside firms.

 

Most of our vendors are using older versions of AutoCAD. We have one tank fabricating company that is still using AutoCAD 2000 and doing all their work in model space and drafting it much the same way one would do on a drafting board. Tried to get them to use Layouts and they refused.

I just checked and our subscription price has remained the same since 2005 and we've changed our dealer in that time.

Unlike you Mark none of our work is for internal use, it all goes out to external clients who have versions of AutoCAD from 2002 to 2012 (including Civil 3D 2007-2012). We need to respond to what they want and when they say they want a DTM in 2012 format then we have to deliver it or they go elsewhere. If we were just producing for internal use I don't think that I would go for a subscription.

Does your dealer have an office in the UK!

Exactly the same for us...

 

It sounds like a subscription is quite beneficial for you Tyke.

Yup, I find it extremely beneficial, but as I said to Mark, only because it suits my needs and with Mark's needs I wouldn't be on subscription.

I changed our dealer because all I got from the previous one was bills and excuses. The current one is just round the corner so that is an added advantage too.

Does your dealer have an office in the UK!

No, but if I mentioned it to him he might consider opening one :wink:

I did the calculation for my company and with current prices, being on subscription for Civil 3D remains more cost effective until I upgrade only every ninth year. I have taken out a three year subscription and get a 10% reduction in the cost of my subscription. We can also write off the cost the of subscription against tax, which is a hidden benefit for subscription. But as with Tannar there are things that are available from Autodesk for Civil 3D that you only get as a subscription customer. We also get freebies and reduced prices on training etc from our Autodesk dealer, which non subscription customers do not get.

What numbers did you use? Standalone prices also go for tax benefit. Problem with Subscription vs Standalone IMHO is you never have to pay the ADVERTISED price for the standalone here in US and Autodesk is always offering upgrade deals. When 2012 first hit the streets, I could have upgraded for around $1800 US (I think that's what the reseller said).

I am putting in my request to move to Bentley AutoPlant and/or Microstation.

I really do not think subscription is worth it unless you need the additional extensions mentioned by StykeFace and Tyke.

What numbers did you use? Standalone prices also go for tax benefit. Problem with Subscription vs Standalone IMHO is you never have to pay the ADVERTISED price for the standalone here in US and Autodesk is always offering upgrade deals. When 2012 first hit the streets, I could have upgraded for around $1800 US (I think that's what the reseller said).

 

I am putting in my request to move to Bentley AutoPlant and/or Microstation.

 

I really do not think subscription is worth it unless you need the additional extensions mentioned by StykeFace and Tyke.

We don't get a recommended price here, you have to make an enquiry with a dealer who then makes you an offer. Only very occasionally do we get deals from Autodesk and not when a new version comes out.

Our product price for Civil 3D is around 6000 EUROs and my subscription is 750 EUROs pro seat per annum, less 10% for a three year subscription.

We also have MicroStation V8i here in the office. My experience is that Bentley is far, far worse than Autodesk. I placed our order for the software, but had to pay for it before they would send it, then they sent me the wrong product, they tried to put that right and then sent me the wrong language version. It installed ok but you have to do a pre-installation because not all the required components are included in the install package. After installation it took them 3 months to send me the authorisation code, because my computers aren't able to access the internet and get one directly from there. It was only when I contacted the European Vice President personally that the staff in the Netherands and Munich actually did something to help. I purchased a perpeual licence, but it only lasts five years and then it expires!!! I have contact with a MicroStation Consultant who specializes in MicroStation customization and she warned me before I started out what to expect, and she was right. The price for a standard version is 6000 EUROs, but that's not for InRoads (MicroStation variant of Civil 3D), that costs more.

I have my beef with Autodesk, but Bentley are in a league of their own. Of course it can be totally different in the US. I had and still have, three MicroStation 95 seats and we use them regularly for one client, and I thought of upgrading them to V8i at that time. The official quotation from Bentley was 800 EUROs per year since we bought them, per seat. 1996 to 2008 was 12 years so that worked out at 9600 EUROs per seat, but the cost of a new seat is ony 6000 EUROs. The worst part is that they were deadly serious. Bentley's version of a subscription is the Bentley Select Partner. I've not had any experience with it and I don't want any if its like what I've already experienced with Bentley.

I think the AC software has been "good enough" for years and although each release does add something I can't live without, if I never used it I wouldn't know to miss it.

I really like the new releases, like a kid in a toy store, wanting to play with the new stuff. And if I had to pay for it myself I would probably stay on subscription because I enjoy the new releases so much. Since my company only has one license it is real easy to have ~$1000US in their budget to cover the subscription.

The official quotation from Bentley was 800 EUROs per year since we bought them, per seat. 1996 to 2008 was 12 years so that worked out at 9600 EUROs per seat, but the cost of a new seat is ony 6000 EUROs. The worst part is that they were deadly serious.

I'm trying to get at least one subscription so we halways have a current version, just wish the corporate penny pinches woul hurry up and get out of my way. based on us upgrading approxiamately every 3 years i've figured the subscription would be the better route. it helps that we have a premier corporate account or what ever its called with autodesk, its gotten us some fairly sizable discounts off our volumn of seats.