How many chances can a person get to make it right?

How many times do you let a drafter make the same mistake before you let them go? I've got one drafter who I can't trust and I can only put him on the simplest of drawing, but he still screws those up so bad that I have to spend hours redlining his drawings. I've corrected these mistakes before, and I've shown him exactly how I want him to do it numerous times. He's becoming one those people who are untrainable (and he's not even 40 yet!). I've already told my supervisor that I can't use him anymore and that I need another drafter.

Back to the question, where would you draw the line?

Across his neck? Kidding!

Maybe he needs to sit down and actually read the "Drafting Standards" manual then be tested on it.

What kinds of mistakes does he continue to repeat? Does he have a "comprehension/retention" caused by some medical condition?

Putting aside any compensation related motivational factors (for the moment):

Has there always been a training issue since being hired?

How long have they worked with CAD; was this position their first?

Not that it *should* impact work, but are there any personal circumstances that *may* be causing this lack of attention to detail that they may be dealing with?

Are failures to adhere to CAD standards documented during the year as they happen, or at least during annual reviews?

What does your HR department policy state as grounds for firing?

Has this person been formally counseled... to be informed that they are *on probation*, and they *may* be fired if they don't improve?

Have you posted an anonnymous job listing to see what kind of applicants you *might* consider to replace the problem employee?

Maybe he needs to be "moved" into a new position like sales. What was his background?

I'd come out and give you a hand but I here Wisconsin winters are worse than those here in Connecticut. LOL

What kinds of mistakes does he continue to repeat? Does he have a "comprehension/retention" caused by some medical condition?

Annotating a drawing and his consistency with accuracy. For instance, this is the way that I want ALL hole notes shown:

(3X)

Ø0.188 THRU

Ø0.375 X 82° CSK

I've had to correct this on nearly every drawing since I pulled him into the conference room for a one on one chat about his performance.

Also, the CAD Standard Manual is very clear on how the dimensions are supposed to be laid out. 3/8" off the object for the first line, spaced 1/4" apart for addition levels of dimensions. His dimension placement is all over the board and very inconsistent.

As far as accuracy, one drawing he'll be kinda close to getting right, but the next drawing (which is VERY similar) he'll totally fudge it up.

Could you force standards checking on him? I'm speaking of the AutoCAD feature now.

1. Has there always been a training issue since being hired?

 

2. How long have they worked with CAD; was this position their first?

 

3. Not that it *should* impact work, but are there any personal circumstances that *may* be causing this lack of attention to detail that they may be dealing with?

 

4. Are failures to adhere to CAD standards documented during the year as they happen, or at least during annual reviews?

 

5. What does your HR department policy state as grounds for firing?

 

6. Has this person been formally counseled... to be informed that they are *on probation*, and they *may* be fired if they don't improve?

 

7. Have you posted an anonnymous job listing to see what kind of applicants you *might* consider to replace the problem employee?

1. From day one, his perception has been that his @#&$ don't stink and he's the greatest drafter that ever lived. His first drawing that we let him run solo on was so bad, that it took me three hours to mark it up.

2. A few years, at least. He worked for another high end cabinet company and I think he even got a degree in drafting from a tech college.

3. The only thing I can think of is his addiction to selling stuff on eBay. He's always on that site when he's on break or lunch.

4. I've been told that it's company policy to NOT document anything. This way, the finger can't point back to the higher ups when they screw up. Kind of an unwritten rule.

5. HAHAHA! HR department? Policy? HAHAHA! That was a good one!

6. Yes, within the last month and numerous times before that.

7. Not yet.

Could you force standards checking on him? I'm speaking of the AutoCAD feature now.

I do, but the kind of mistakes that he's making aren't the kind that AutoCAD checks for.

Having a standards manual is great, but from my own experience, I can tell you that most people will look at it once and then stick it on the shelf and never look at it again.

My advice would be to give this guy a notebook and make him take notes as you're explaining how to do things. Maybe if he writes it down, in his own words, he will understand and remember. Or at least he will have his notes to go back to if he forgets how to do something.

I was having the same problem with a kid in our office, but after I made him start taking notes, things seem to have improved.

For his next assignment ask him to draw an unemployment check. Maybe he'll get the hint.

1. From day one, his perception has been that his @#&$ don't stink and he's the greatest drafter that ever lived.

Well, after reading this post it sounds like you've got a prima donna on your hands. My previous suggestion probably won't work with someone like this.

Well that and he has copies of the previous drawings that have been marked up so he can refer back to them. Obviously that's not working.

My other drafter reads the standards manual religiously to make sure he's getting it, and he's doing a fantastic job. Not quite 100% of where I want him to be, but he's really close to it.

1. From day one, his perception has been that his @#&$ don't stink and he's the greatest drafter that ever lived. His first drawing that we let him run solo on was so bad, that it took me three hours to mark it up.

^^ This is the one that gets me.

The same holds true for Humans, as for animals, bad behavior that is not corrected is repeated.

Knowing almost nothing about your current situation, or that which existed at the time of their hire, the day one *stuff* would have led to replacement within the first 90 days at my company (Florida Law allows for *no questions asked* termination within first 90 days).

4. I've been told that it's company policy to NOT document anything. This way, the finger can't point back to the higher ups when they screw up. Kind of an unwritten rule.

 

5. HAHAHA! HR department? Policy? HAHAHA! That was a good one!

Forgive my gloomy presumption(s), but that tells me it's a shady place to work (no offense intended of course).

Your employer failing to support, and frankly encourage documentation for the purposes of 'preventing finger pointing' sounds like a daily nightmare in which to work. That's ridiculous, and on some level unethical I would think (again, not being an employee there, so I have no way of knowing). Just saying.

As for not having an HR department - you don't need one per-se - but you ABSOLUTELY need some form of an HR policy. These are not the same. Failing to even have some form of policy ties your hands, and opens your employer up to retaliatory law suite, were you to fire this guy. Without proper documentation as justification for the alleged violations of standards, and being IAW your own corporate policy you have NO grounds to fire them. In a court of law what you're describing is "I don't like the guy, so we fired him." That holds no water, and you're asking for trouble IMO.

I truly feel for your situation, SuperCAD.

In Wisconsin, it's hire at will and fire at will. Any employee can be fired for any or no reason at all. I think that is the biggest reason why we do not have a policy on firing people for performance issues. If the big man don't like you, you're outta here.

I would think that this would make it impossible to deny a unemployment check though, but that's not my department.

To add to this, it's really not a bad place to work, but it can be stressful when the boss could fire you if he doesn't take his morning dump. A lot of the other so called managers have been fired and we're running pretty lean right now. It would actually be the perfect time to come up with some company policies (my CAD standard manual is the closest thing this company has to a policy that can be enforced). However, we're running so lean that no one has time to sit down and make one. I have many other thoughts about this subject, but I'll save it for another day.

LoL ... Understood.

In that case, and given the *prima donna* factor, perhaps a blunt conversation (in private) would suffice - "we've talked about this before, you keep making the same mistakes over and over again; are you genuinely trying to fix this major problem, or do you not care?"... Then make your decision/recommendation accordingly.

IMO - If the person expresses some sincerity toward the idea of adhering to standard, but it's hard coming from where they did, unlearning what they *thought* they knew, blah, blah... then perhaps some additional, individual training could benefit them (and you).

However, if the person doesn't care enough to *try* (as they have failed to do so far), and remain *defiant* to adhering to standard, then they gotta' go. They're toxic. Your time/effort will be better spent training their replacement. Just saying.

I had this type of situation but with a drafter that was quiet and never asked questions. As I marked his stuff up I'd write out why it's wrong and what to change...he never got the hint. I sent multiple emails (to document this) which ended up being very good for us.

On the unemployment check, there are times where it's not a question of IF they'll get one, it's how soon. Around here if you documented that they were told and written up many times and let them go, that only helps your company when it comes time to argue with unemployment. Because if this isn't documented, guess what the fired person does. They go apply for unemployment and tell them they were fired for no reason and they get a check as soon as the law states. In our case, we were able to provide documentation to the case worker to say "hey, we told him many times to get it right" which helped a lot b/c then they don't drain on our funds so quickly. I'm not saying unemployed shouldn't get a check, but it's there to protect companies from people just getting jobs then fired for laziness and getting that check. Albeit, it's not a lot of money per check but there are people who can make it work for them.

As of right now, his days are numbered. Just talked with my supervisor and he has a call into a staffing service to find a new drafter. Apparently the owner was getting tired of his crap too.

Give patient to him........later on he will change and you will use him more than your expectations...

I had one drafter like that, I used to shout him all the time until he realized the mistakes he made...

Patient...just patient

For his next assignment ask him to draw an unemployment check. Maybe he'll get the hint.

That's cold man....funny...but cold.

Well, SuperCAD, looks like your problem will get fixed soon. For anyone in the same predicament, here's my 2 cents--document, document, document. If you have to point out the same mistakes over and over again, keep copies of the markups with names and dates. Send him emails about the situation and keep them in a separate folder, along with any responses. If those responses get difficult, bcc your boss so he's aware of things. Go to your boss with your evidence, and frame it as a matter of productivity. Show that you gave the guy every opportunity to straighten up but that he's just not doing his job.