Data extraction tables: Extremely tantalizing but entirely useless?

So I'm beginning to play with the idea of setting up a data extraction table to automate square footage take-offs, number of faucet holes to be drilled, number of electrical outlets, etc. I would also like to add calculation cells to multiply material/labor cost x square footage, etc. All my geometry will be organized onto pre-determined layers, so I would also like to sum the totals by layer, etc. When I got wind of the data extraction feature, I got very excited, and immediately started visualizing how I was going to set up my system.

Now that I'm playing with it a little more... Not so excited.

After a little experimentation, it is looking like one must create a new table for every new drawing, only AT THE END of the drawing process. And one must go through all the steps of the Data Extraction Wizard.

THAT IS COMPLETELY BACKWARDS/USELESS.

I want to create a generic data extraction table template, save it as part of my drawing template file, and have the table update AUTOMATICALLY (or upon REGEN/UPDATE FIELD/WHATEVER) as I populate each new drawing with objects/geometry.

Going through the Data Extraction Wizard each time is a pointless exercise, and a huge productivity killer. It also makes it difficult to create standardized, uniform tables each time. Even I can't remember all those settings! I would like to automate the extraction in such a way that anyone in my office can extract the data from their drawings. (Rather, I would like to make it automatic so they have no choice BUT to gather this data.) They cannot be expected to run the wizard. That is beyond their capabilities.

Am I missing something here?

To boil it down, what I am looking for is:

-Predefined (EMPTY) data extraction table saved as part of my standard drawing template (.dwt) file, extracting from CURRENT FILE ONLY.

-Table populates "interactively" as the drawing is filled with objects/geometry.

Help please.

Do you by chance (1) have a version of a "vertical product" of AutoCAD or can you (2) get an approval to upgrade to one for a very minimal cost? If so then you can do this easily with AEC Schedules.

Also, there might be a custom LISP routine floating around that already does what you're needing.

Do you by chance (1) have a version of a "vertical product" of AutoCAD or can you (2) get an approval to upgrade to one for a very minimal cost? If so then you can do this easily with AEC Schedules.

 

Also, there might be a custom LISP routine floating around that already does what you're needing.

The upgrade is highly unlikely at this time. But you're saying that ACAD Architecture, for instance, could solve my problems fairly quickly?

It seems like they included this (crippled) data extraction feature in the vanilla version just to push us into that upgrade, huh? Snakes.

There must be some way I can distill the process down to two or three mouse-clicks (once the table has been set up and saved, that is).

Yep, you want BIM mate. AutoCAD AEC or Revit might be a good start.

Yep, you want BIM mate. AutoCAD AEC or Revit might be a good start.

Hmm... I've looked into BIM only very briefly. Are the programs you mentioned basically "AutoCAD PLUS feature A, B, C", or would I be losing some of the features/functionality I have with vanilla AutoCAD? Or should those be added along side/on top of AutoCAD?

An upgrade/switch is not likely though. The other regular CAD users in my office are old dogs, set in their ways.

It seems like they included this (crippled) data extraction feature in the vanilla version just to push us into that upgrade, huh? Snakes.

AutoCAD is showing its age nowadays. That's the real problem, only if you want to really extend the original concept of AutoCAD (eg: simply an extension of the hand drafting board). AutoCAD is just fine still if all you want to do is "draw" and plot sheets.

Well, that's not the issue. The real issue is that AutoCAD is 30 years old and never really "re-wrote" the program to be as dynamic as say, Revit. AutoCAD Architecture took a lot of intuitiveness from the Revit platform and the added AEC functionality in these vertical products closes the gap of utilizing information dynamically but still isn't as good as other applications.

 

AutoCAD is showing its age nowadays. That's the real problem, only if you want to really extend the original concept of AutoCAD (eg: simply an extension of the hand drafting board). AutoCAD is just fine still if all you want to do is "draw" and plot sheets.

So what should I be getting into if I want all the drawing and plotting power/flexibility of AutoCAD, dynamic blocks, etc. PLUS the types of data extraction mentioned in this thread, plus whatever other goodies have come down the pike in the last 5 years or so? It sounds like I'm late to the party! Does Revit do all that AutoCAD does and more, or do I need to use the two in tandem?

So what should I be getting into if I want all the drawing and plotting power/flexibility of AutoCAD, dynamic blocks, etc. PLUS the types of data extraction mentioned in this thread, plus whatever other goodies have come down the pike in the last 5 years or so? It sounds like I'm late to the party! Does Revit do all that AutoCAD does and more, or do I need to use the two in tandem?

Really you need to understand exactly what your needs are. Revit doesn't do all that AutoCAD does and more, because it doesn't even function like AutoCAD in the slightest. This is why a lot of old-timers hate Revit because they open it up and expect it to work like AutoCAD but faster or better. Revit isn't even in the same class as AutoCAD (not that it's better, just different). AutoCAD can "draw" much better than Revit in certain situations, but one insight of Revit is the parametric capabilities which intends for all types of data extraction and manipulation. But you don't really "draw" in Revit, you "model".

This is why I say a vertical product of AutoCAD might be the best choice for your specific needs as it somewhat meets in the middle.

This is where you have to be careful. Revit is most definitely the "future" of design for certain trades, although a lot of old-timers still are clinging (desperately I might add) to AutoCAD, claiming it'll never fully go away. And, the truth is, it might not ever actually go away. But in certain "trade specific" markets, other platforms have greatly surpassed AutoCAD, and will continue to do so, such as Revit Architecture.

 

Really you need to understand exactly what your needs are. Revit doesn't do all that AutoCAD does and more, because it doesn't even function like AutoCAD in the slightest. This is why a lot of old-timers hate Revit because they open it up and expect it to work like AutoCAD but faster or better. Revit isn't even in the same class as AutoCAD (not that it's better, just different). AutoCAD can "draw" much better than Revit in certain situations, but one insight of Revit is the parametric capabilities which intends for all types of data extraction and manipulation. But you don't really "draw" in Revit, you "model".

 

This is why I say a vertical product of AutoCAD might be the best choice for your specific needs as it somewhat meets in the middle.

Thanks a million. That helps clear things up some. I will surely be stuck with AutoCAD Dinosaur in my office, but I will definitely look into Revit and BIM for my future career growth.

As for that data extraction table, I played with it some more, and I think I can make it work, for the most part. Not without going through the wizard, but oh well. It does have the option to use a previous .dxe as a template...

Well remember, if you type the command at the command line with a dash (-) in front of the command, you can access the non-dialog version. If you set up a "Template", you can automate this with a script-style Macro. Can you upload an example file? Maybe I can be of assistance for you in this endeavor. I used to use DATAEXTRACTION a lot and was quite good at it in the good 'ol days.

Thanks a million. That helps clear things up some. I will surely be stuck with AutoCAD Dinosaur in my office, but I will definitely look into Revit and BIM for my future career growth.

 

As for that data extraction table, I played with it some more, and I think I can make it work, for the most part. Not without going through the wizard, but oh well. It does have the option to use a previous .dxe as a template...

The key to using it with a minimum of aggravation is definitely using a previous .dxe as a template, and I believe you can set a default to delete the previous drawing data from your results in the new one.

You can also create and save your own personal TABLE STYLE, to ensure visual conformity down the road, and across numerous workstations.

Well remember, if you type the command at the command line with a dash (-) in front of the command, you can access the non-dialog version. If you set up a "Template", you can automate this with a script-style Macro. Can you upload an example file? Maybe I can be of assistance for you in this endeavor. I used to use DATAEXTRACTION a lot and was quite good at it in the good 'ol days.

 

Thanks for the pointers. I'm going to play around with it a little more and see what I can come up with. This phase is going to be a bit tricky, because I probably have to look into linking some of my cells to Excel in order to pull things like material pricing back into AutoCAD, and I need to set up all the formulas to automate our take-offs/pricing. I'll have to cogitate on the logistics of it for a little while. I'll definitely take you up on that offer if I get stuck though.

This phase is going to be a bit tricky, because I probably have to look into linking some of my cells to Excel in order to pull things like material pricing back into AutoCAD, and I need to set up all the formulas to automate our take-offs/pricing.

I see what you're doing now, you're wanting to marriage AutoCAD to Excel seamlessly for a live Bill of Material for take-off & estimation purposes. This is no easy task for standard AutoCAD. You'll probably need to search other options, and either way it's gonna cost a little dinero.

Whoooah there nelly. "Back into AutoCAD" doesn't really work. Data Extraction is just that... extraction. It's not bi-directional (that I know of, anyways). You really might need to talk to a programmer or find a program that already exists. In fact, look into Autodesk Quantity Takeoff.

 

I see what you're doing now, you're wanting to marriage AutoCAD to Excel seamlessly for a live Bill of Material for take-off & estimation purposes. This is no easy task for standard AutoCAD. You'll probably need to search other options, and either way it's gonna cost a little dinero.

 

Hmmm. Are you sure? I was already able to use "DATALINK" to bring data from an Excel sheet into my data extraction table. Just ran a test with a single cell, no formulas yet...

I use DATALINK a lot. But that is way different than Data Extraction. DATALINK does just that, it "links" an Excel spreadsheet and you can make changes in CAD that update the XLS/XLSx file and vice versa. DATALINK doesn't do any "automated generation" of blocks or any other type of information (that I know of) to produce some automated take-off. If you could combine the two programs, then it would be very nice indeed, but I don't think there's a viable option right out of the box. The information from a DATALINK is all manual editing.

Also, you'll find that the Formulas don't really work as well as they should from time to time.

I use DATALINK a lot. But that is way different than Data Extraction. DATALINK does just that, it "links" an Excel spreadsheet and you can make changes in CAD that update the XLS/XLSx file and vice versa. DATALINK doesn't do any "automated generation" of blocks or any other type of information (that I know of) to produce some automated take-off. If you could combine the two programs, then it would be very nice indeed, but I don't think there's a viable option right out of the box. The information from a DATALINK is all manual editing.

 

Also, you'll find that the Formulas don't really work as well as they should from time to time.

Sorry, my jargon got a bit garbled. Yes, I'm trying to combine a data extraction table with a data link to an Excel table. So far it seems to work quite well, but it is looking like I would have to keep creating a new data link to my Excel file for each range of cells I want to fill. It would be desireable to reduce the complexity of this step if possible. My office mates cannot necesarrily be counted on to go through a "wizard" type process to create a new data link for each type of material allocated to the project. Drag/drop would be much better. Maybe I can pull that off with a macro or LISP?

For example, let's say my layers are set up like:

COUNTERTOP 1

COUNTERTOP 2

.

.

.

COUNTERTOP X

TILE A

TILE B

.

.

.

Those will populate the "LAYER" column of my data extraction table, another column will be populated by the respective square footages of the polylines present on each layer, etc.

I will have several "blank" columns for:

MATERIAL SLAB SIZE PRICE/SF ETC.

Those cells will be filled by choosing the corresponding cells from my Excel data link.

Then I will have formula cells (PRICE/SF*AREA)... You get the idea.

On 30.05.2012 at 23:15, WINTERMUTE said:

Bu yüzden metrekare çekimlerini, açılacak musluk delik sayısını, elektrik prizi sayısını vb. otomatikleştirmek için bir veri çıkarma tablosu kurma fikriyle oynamaya başlıyorum. Ayrıca çoğaltmak için hesaplama hücreleri de eklemek istiyorum malzeme/işçilik maliyeti x metrekare vb. Tüm geometrim önceden belirlenmiş katmanlar halinde düzenlenecek, dolayısıyla toplamları katmanlara göre de toplamak istiyorum, vb. Veri çıkarma özelliğinin haberini aldığımda çok heyecanlandım ve sistemimi nasıl kuracağımı hemen hayalimde canlandırmaya başladım.

 

Artık onunla biraz daha oynuyorum... O kadar heyecanlı değilim.

 

Küçük bir denemeden sonra, her yeni çizim için, yalnızca çizim sürecinin SONUNDA yeni bir tablo oluşturulması gerekiyormuş gibi görünüyor. Ve Veri Çıkarma Sihirbazının tüm adımlarından geçilmesi gerekir.

 

BU TAMAMEN GERİYE/YARARSIZDIR.

 

Genel bir veri çıkarma tablosu şablonu oluşturmak, bunu çizim şablon dosyamın bir parçası olarak kaydetmek ve her yeni çizimi nesnelerle/geometriyle doldururken tablonun OTOMATİK OLARAK (veya REGEN/UPDATE FIELD/WHATEVER üzerine) güncellenmesini istiyorum.

 

Her seferinde Veri Çıkarma Sihirbazı'ndan geçmek anlamsız bir egzersizdir ve büyük bir üretkenlik öldürücüdür. Ayrıca her seferinde standartlaştırılmış, tek tip tablolar oluşturmayı da zorlaştırır. Ben bile tüm bu ayarları hatırlayamıyorum! Çıkarmayı, ofisimdeki herkesin çizimlerinden veri çıkarabileceği şekilde otomatikleştirmek istiyorum. (Daha ziyade, bu verileri toplamaktan başka seçenekleri kalmaması için bunu otomatik hale getirmek isterim.) Sihirbazı çalıştırmaları beklenemez. Bu onların yeteneklerinin ötesindedir.

 

Burada bir şeyi mi kaçırıyorum?

 

Kısaca özetlemek gerekirse aradığım şey:

 

-Önceden tanımlanmış (BOŞ) veri çıkarma tablosu, standart çizim şablonu (.dwt) dosyamın bir parçası olarak kaydedildi, YALNIZCA GÜNCEL DOSYADAN çıkartılıyor.

 

-Tablo, çizim nesneler/geometri ile dolduruldukça "etkileşimli olarak" doldurulur.

 

Yardım lütfen.

lutfen bunu benımle paylaşır mısnız?

And Google says:

lutfen bunu benımle paylaşır mısnız? = Could you please share this with me?