AutoCAD MEP or what?

[KeithBrown]

Your salesman is blowing smoke up your rear. Have him show you why he thinks that Revit is better. Don't let him TELL you but have him show you a demo of both products. Autocad MEP will win hands down in a blowout.

[hertz hound]

For us the coordination aspect of the job which is becoming a pre-requisite is traded as AMEP. A good question would be if it could be done easier with revit and exported and traded as AMEP. I remember reading that if the plans you get are in cad stay with cad it is too much work to design in revit off of cad backgrounds. I don't know if that is still the case.
Since AMEP is a design to fabrication program I am not sure if the information that is sent to the machinery would be lost in the translation.
http://www.quickpen.com/index.php/Pr...-Overview.html
I see that some things like Trimble's point creator works in both, to then be used in their layout solutions.
http://www.trimble.com/construction/...imble-MEP.aspx
We are in the electrical end of it so it does not matter to us. It seams to me that the mechanical end of it is what is steering the ship.
The re-seller for us was dissapointed that they could not sell us revit. They could have if they would of let us know of the price and package change for 2013. Now there is no MEP suite and you have to get a suite that has to many things bundled together for a lot more money.Navis would have been nice but I get by with TeklaBimSight which is free. Our Re-seller said things like they hate to work in autocad because it is to much like work. It does seam like a lot of people say they won't switch back to cad but I don't know if it is all hype. I can't wait to read stykface's reply now that he made the switch. AMEP is all we need and it is a powerfull and amazing program. I would just like to learn revit incase it does take over the coordination world.

[StykFacE]

Our Re-seller said things like they hate to work in autocad because it is to much like work. It does seam like a lot of people say they won't switch back to cad but I don't know if it is all hype. I can't wait to read stykface's reply now that he made the switch. AMEP is all we need and it is a powerfull and amazing program.

AutoCAD MEP definitely is a powerful program and I love many things about it. However, your re-seller's comment is dead on. I am finding myself more and more nowadays hating going back to AutoCAD, especially in a team environment. And I most certainly will hype up Revit, but only in a certain production environment. My environment almost demands Revit since I work with the architect, the structural engineer, and all the building engineers (the M's/E's/P's) all in house, and all at the same time. Once we start a job, everything is spot on, fully coordinated, same Titleblock, never worry about the XREF nightmare, etc. But Revit MEP works great if you have a Revit Architecture model to start with.

But when I was a "one man show" at a mechanical contractor, AutoCAD MEP was wonderful because we always got DWG backgrounds and I could just "draw" what our contract documents showed. You can't just "draw" in Revit, you "model" in Revit. There's a huge difference, and that's the part of AutoCAD MEP I wish was in Revit, but it's not and never can be because AutoCAD is simply an extension of the drafting board. AutoCAD MEP does have some great functionality but it's only partially intelligent where as Revit is fully intelligent, and since AMEP is still AutoCAD, it's still tied to the "free-form drawing/modeling" world and not the "parametric modeling" world. Now that I'm versed in Revit MEP, if I went back to working at a contractor, I would definitely use Revit MEP on certain BIM jobs.

I would just like to learn revit in case it does take over the coordination world.

If I were you I would highly suggest that you get the Autodesk Suite that comes with Revit. Revit "is" the future, no doubt. I'm seeing G.C.'s more and more are pushing the use of Revit models from the contractors for their BIM coordination.

I will say this... Revit is SO great to work with in terms of your mind being "free". I feel very free in Revit. What I mean by that is I don't have to worry about updating anything because it does so automatically. Since all sheets that represent 2D linework in Plan View are basically "glasses" that see the Revit model, then when you update things there is never any question that it didn't get updated in another sheet. Last week I changed the tags of some urinals from U-1 to UR-1 and out of the 30+ sheets, I knew they all were updated because of the parametric aspect of the program. Not only that, the architect had all his models updated so on all his floorplans, all the tags updated for him as well. Perfect sync.

Creating and managing Titleblock Sheets and Views are simply genius. When you create Revit Families you create them to function the way you want them to so you'll never have to worry about something going haywire. Instant Sections, 3D Views, and the like are so far superior to AutoCAD MEP, it's laughable. I hate making Sections in AutoCAD MEP now that I know Revit very well. In fact, I won't even do it anymore. It's just not worth my time to produce a Section in AutoCAD MEP.

Even the simple things, like lineweights are simplified and genius in Revit. So much so I wish Autodesk would get rid of plot styles, and I'm dead serious with all the emotions of my soul and being. Plot styles single handily cause more work and irritation for EVERYONE who uses AutoCAD that I almost want to back-charge Autodesk any time I have to mess with them. It's even worse in AutoCAD MEP because of the Style Manager and Display Manager adds more fuel to the plot style fire. Object based visual control with an aged layer/color based plot style? Man it makes me CRINGE, lol.....

Anyways, there are some negatives in Revit. Zero content is a negative for a beginner. Revit Families will make you want to throw your computer out of the window when you first start learning them. And Revit MEP is even worse.... so much so that I won't even go there for now, lol.

But once you finally realize that when you double-click the Revit icon on your desktop you must forget everything about AutoCAD, that's when you realize how great Revit is. As you learn Revit you see the insurmountable benefits over AutoCAD and AutoCAD MEP. But don't let any reseller sell you that it's better than AutoCAD because those two programs should not ever be compared. Revit is not "AutoCAD - the next generation" nor is it "AutoCAD on steroids". Revit is a parametric modeling application and AutoCAD is a drafting and free-form modeling application - two totally different platforms for people with two totally different needs.

Wow that was longer than I was expecting but hoping my point was made for all it mattered to.

[lee-mack]

MY last question, ( sorry if I ask stupid questions, I don't even know how to draw a single line, never mind modeling)
As I undrestand from your reply (Stykface), these two packes are completely different.
before I go ahead and buy the Revit package and send my CAD guy on some training course, I want to know if its possible to produce some 2d CAD files from the revit files, so customer's and fabricators can open and use it( not everyone have revit).

Thanks

[StykFacE]

Yes you can, there's an Export option. And for the record you can have AutoCAD and Revit together simply by buying a suite, or "package". It's the same price as buying either one by itself, maybe just a tad bit more is all. Make sure to get both, the market really requires the use of both in some situations.

[lee-mack]

Thanks guys
I made a appointment for the local technical guy from autodesk to come over with a laptop and show us both softwares, some samples of both and help us to buy the right package. I will mention the suite to see what is on offer.

Thank you guys

[StykFacE]

Lee, if you are a person that holds the decision making power in this purchase, and would like more discussion on this, I have no problem having a conversation over the phone to answer any questions. I've been in contracting for many years, and now am in the engineering firm side of things, so I know both sides of the market very well. I have field experience as well as years of design, CAD, project management experience as well.

Just thought I'd offer since I know what it's like to be in this very crossroad with nothing but salesman screaming what they think is best.

[hertz hound]

Wow, great in depth reply earlier.

The coordination job that I am working on now was all exported from the Architect and engineers Revit contract documents. Right up to the point the contract was awarded it was still up in the air weather it was going to be coordinated in Revit or AMEP. That is why I got the student version to work with. I would not have been able to do it in Revit and my boss would have had to sub it out. I am down to 12 hours a week on it and the rest of the time in the field. As soon as the smoke clears on this one I will get back into trying it again. It was just starting to make sense. We were dragging our feet on buying the 2012 version and missed out on the MEP suite. The price for both was an extra $500. For the suite in 2013 to get both MEP’s was 1,500. I think. They have the subscription now and that may have been higher with the suite also. It is probably a drop in a bucket for a job that took over a year to bid and negotiate.

Lee-Mack, one of the coolest things I think is modeling in 3d and then going to plan view and changing the display representation to schematic. I don’t know if that is what you are looking for your document set but that is real easy. I don't know how to do a screen shot or I would show you what it looks like both ways.

[lee-mack]

Lee, if you are a person that holds the decision making power in this purchase, and would like more discussion on this, I have no problem having a conversation over the phone to answer any questions. I've been in contracting for many years, and now am in the engineering firm side of things, so I know both sides of the market very well. I have field experience as well as years of design, CAD, project management experience as well.

Just thought I'd offer since I know what it's like to be in this very crossroad with nothing but salesman screaming what they think is best.

Thank you very much for you offer
PM me your contact number and a suitable time to call, remember I am based in the UK
I am looking forward to talking to you.

Thanks

Just noticed my PM is not working
lee6800@hotmail.co.uk