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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by StykFacE View Post
    I mean, from your earlier post it sounds like all you use is 7 lineweights (eg: colors), then a few more for screening. So your need for a plot style use is probably the simplest I've ever heard of. At my company, we can't utilize that few colors. Our designs just can't take it. We might as well use all one color if all we have is 7 to choose from.
    This is basically what we use with .ctb, and even in complicated drawings (> 200 layers) it works well in my opinion.

    Quote Originally Posted by StykFacE View Post
    Also, we utilize color in our PDF plots. We have Red for clouds in our internal QA/QC. Then orange, blue and green. So we have a Named Plot Style for this because each color represents a phase in our QA/QC. For this to happen using CTB that is not ByObject, you'd have to kill a few Colors, or you'd have to use True Color to override the CTB. Good luck with standards with that method.
    We do the same with .ctb although simply used a colour plot style when we want to print pdfs in colour. I guess with .ctb you might require more plotstyles, but at the end of the day, most companies set their plotsyles up and then not touch them again for 5, 10 years etc.

  2. #22
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    Like I mentioned before, to each his own. *shrugs*

    I know a guy who still draws everything on the 0 Layer and doesn't use any lineweights. He produces a lot of engineered documents, too, all in Modelspace (old school way). His background is set to White, and all linework is set to Black. So obviously I wouldn't even mention STB's to him because I know he's not changing; nor does he need to.

    Seems the only people who keep mentioning only having a handful of lineweights are Civil guys. Seems about right.
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  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by EMS_0525 View Post
    Im not trying to be arguing here... so i hope im not coming across that way. But i want to want to use STBs. I just still dont see that big of an advantage over CTBs for me to completey change how everyone in our company thinks. Like i said the one guy uses them, and if it was that advantageous i would switch. Im just not seeing it. I just see it as the end result is the same, just a different means of getting there. Just like everything else in autocad. There is 10 ways to do the same thing.
    If you had a 50/50 split with half using ctb and half with stb then I would push for STB but in your situation I would require the one guy to not use STB. What a pain to have some files one way and some the other. The cad manager should stop that person from using STB, imho.

    The difficulty in explaining moving to STB is that people have used CTB so long it makes sense to them. But it really makes no sense to use color for b/w lineweights and it makes no sense to have to remember a pen width to color matrix or have to refer to one just to get the lineweight you need. Knowing you need color_144 to plot a black line the a width of .015, or color_244 for a 50% screening is nonsensical no matter how you slice it. Instead you would have a plot style name of BW015 and a BW50%. Which one really makes the most sense? Which one will tell almost any CAD person what your plotting intentions were if they didn't have the ctb or stb file?
    Sometimes there's a man... I won't say a hero, 'cause, what's a hero? But sometimes, there's a man. And I'm talkin' about the Dude here. Sometimes, there's a man, well, he's the man for his time and place. He fits right in there. And that's the Dude, in Los Angeles. - The Stranger, The Big Lebowski

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by StykFacE View Post
    Revit even further simplified it and I absolutely love it. You have Lineweights in Revit, but they are labeled as 1-16. 1 is thin. 16 is as thick as it gets. Easy peasy, done and done. STB's can be set up the same way. I'd rather manage 16 possibilities rather than 255 possibilities.

    To be fair, just because you have 255 possibilities with a *.ctb means they are just that... possibilities. Nowhere does it say you have to actually use all of them. If you're comfortable with a dozen options, you can use only a dozen.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by howitzer View Post
    Nowhere does it say you have to actually use all of them.
    Actually, that is false. You do have to use them - period. If you use CTB you are permanently married to 255 colors. Now if what you mean is that you don't have to utilize 255 different possible plot color options, then that's another story.

    Say you had a new higher who sat down at a CAD workstation. If he just started a job, never before seeing it and he looked over my STB file that I posted earlier, he would know exactly how to translate that without being briefed about the plot style standards. Now take the same situation but switch CTB instead. 255 possible combinations that the new higher would either have to (1) go color by color to figure out the possible combinations or (2) be taught from another employee what/why/where/how. Then, he'd probably have to keep referencing or print out the plot table. Yes I know your point about *only* using 7 colors but the point is, it's simply not the most logical or sensible, and surely not the most efficient way to leverage Plot Styles.

    But rkent's post above yours said it best: why would you use a 255 color palette for black and screened lineweights? It just doesn't make sense. Or, if you'd rather me reword that phrase to say that STB's make more sense to make you happy, then that's fine. But this continuing argument to say that Color Plot Styles make sense is just absurd because they don't, unless the CTB file is set to ByObject and you don't utilize any predefined lineweights per color option. CTB plot styles make sense because you're used to it. Any newcomer to AutoCAD would understand the STB world much quicker and easier than the CTB world.

    The only reason I'm being adamant is not to prove a point but so that newcomers to AutoCAD, if they come across this thread by chance, they have a fair chance to know the real truth. CTB's making sense... and in fact making *more* sense than STB's... is not open for debate in my book. Anybody using STB's will tell you that if they had to go back to CTB's, they'd just quit their job. Well, not really.... but you'd hear a whooooole-lotta complaining, and for good reason, ha.

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    Quote Originally Posted by StykFacE View Post
    Actually, that is false. You do have to use them - period. If you use CTB you are permanently married to 255 colors. Now if what you mean is that you don't have to utilize 255 different possible plot color options, then that's another story.

    Say you had a new higher who sat down at a CAD workstation. If he just started a job, never before seeing it and he looked over my STB file that I posted earlier, he would know exactly how to translate that without being briefed about the plot style standards. Now take the same situation but switch CTB instead. 255 possible combinations that the new higher would either have to (1) go color by color to figure out the possible combinations or (2) be taught from another employee what/why/where/how. Then, he'd probably have to keep referencing or print out the plot table. Yes I know your point about *only* using 7 colors but the point is, it's simply not the most logical or sensible, and surely not the most efficient way to leverage Plot Styles.

    But rkent's post above yours said it best: why would you use a 255 color palette for black and screened lineweights? It just doesn't make sense. Or, if you'd rather me reword that phrase to say that STB's make more sense to make you happy, then that's fine. But this continuing argument to say that Color Plot Styles make sense is just absurd because they don't, unless the CTB file is set to ByObject and you don't utilize any predefined lineweights per color option. CTB plot styles make sense because you're used to it. Any newcomer to AutoCAD would understand the STB world much quicker and easier than the CTB world.

    The only reason I'm being adamant is not to prove a point but so that newcomers to AutoCAD, if they come across this thread by chance, they have a fair chance to know the real truth. CTB's making sense... and in fact making *more* sense than STB's... is not open for debate in my book. Anybody using STB's will tell you that if they had to go back to CTB's, they'd just quit their job. Well, not really.... but you'd hear a whooooole-lotta complaining, and for good reason, ha.

    Wow. That's a very wordy attempt at arguing the semantic differences between "use" and "utilize.

  7. #27
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    Wow. A grammar Nazi on a CAD forum. Yay!
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  8. #28
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    Looking at my screen i can tell how a drawing is going to print by the colors. I worked at a different company than i do now and they had many different line thicknesses assigned to almost every color. Thats absurd. I use many of the colors on my screen but most of them all print out the same. I use different colors to differentiate a concrete wall from a pipe from a tree. But i know if i have something red it will be very dark, and cyan just a little bold. So using STB's looking at the screen how do you know how something is going to print? Is there an association? Turning on the lineweights isn't an option for me, lol. I HATE that. And did i read that STBs make the file significantly larger? I have worked at 4 different drafting jobs and they all use CTBs. Like i said, STBs are newer so im guessing they are "better", so i want to give it a shot. I dont think i can though.
    There is never time to do it correct the first time, but there is always time to do it over.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by StykFacE View Post
    If you're interested, here's what I consider my "base" STB file to go off of:
    https://dl.dropbox.com/u/4989089/Ima...lack%20STB.stb

    This is my own personal STB file that I use for my sidework uses. Notice the "Mask" plot style. Play with this one and see how you like it.... with Hatches, thickened Polylines, etc.
    I have downloaded that and looked it over.

    So you have 12 lineweights and 4 screenings. The CTB im using has 7 lineweights and 6 screenings. So you set a LW to a layer and i set a Color. Appears to be the exact same thing... I could see if there were different lineweights assigned to all 255 colors... but we are essentially doing the same thing. Actually I have even less "settings" than you do.
    There is never time to do it correct the first time, but there is always time to do it over.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by EMS_0525 View Post
    So using STB's looking at the screen how do you know how something is going to print? Turning on the lineweights isn't an option for me, lol. I HATE that.
    I know how it's going to print because I created correctly. I don't have to visualize anything. Set it and forget it. Everything is in my template. I am using colors for visual reference too. Colors, linetypes and lineweights set by-layer. I never display lineweights on the screen since AutoCAD isn't WYSIWYG.
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