Simulating/rendering cloth on these models (3 men) I d/l for movie - help?

I d/l some people models from the sites stickied here, and now I'm trying to make them look as realistic as possible as to skin/hair/cloth, etc, I tried my cloth modifier on the middle man's suit, it didn't work - why?

I tried asking over at Maxforums, but it seems like they're making a joke about it (microwave oven reference)

http://www.maxforums.org/threads/movie_simulating_cloth_hair_skin_help

Here's a jpeg of my 3 men models.

Thanks in advance.

(think I'll stay away from Maxforums in the future and come here for help)

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I tried my cloth modifier on the middle man's suit, it didn't work - why?

 

I tried asking over at Maxforums, but it seems like they're making a joke about it (microwave oven reference)

They made that microwave oven comment because you're not providing any information about what you're trying to do. You're merely saying that the cloth modifier didn't work. You need to explain exactly what you are trying to do and what happened when you tried to do it.

You said you tried the modifier on the man's suit but it didn't work. What exactly were you trying to do with the modifier?

Maybe some tutorials will help: https://www.google.com/search?q=studio%20max%20cloth%20modifier&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

MaxForums will give you good advice, but you need to be clear about what you are asking and post as much information and pictures as possible.

It looks like Mr. Stabby gave you some good advice over at Max Forums. Don't be so quick to dismiss an entire forum based on the reply of one person. But as George and I said, you need to be very clear when you ask questions. Provide as much information as possible and post images in order to help clarify what's happening.

And as for free models, you get what you pay for. If you want good quality models, you either have to purchase pre-built content from a reputable source, pay someone to build them for you or build them yourself. I can't even begin to tell you how many free models I've downloaded in the past but then ended up having to completely rebuild them because they were just no good. Free models are ok if you're in a hurry or on a tight budget, but I would not make a habit of downloading them. It's not worth the hassle. Learn to build your own models.

It looks like Mr. Stabby gave you some good advice over at Max Forums. Don't be so quick to dismiss an entire forum based on the reply of one person. But as George and I said, you need to be very clear when you ask questions. Provide as much information as possible and post images in order to help clarify what's happening.

 

And as for free models, you get what you pay for. If you want good quality models, you either have to purchase pre-built content from a reputable source, pay someone to build them for you or build them yourself. I can't even begin to tell you how many free models I've downloaded in the past but then ended up having to completely rebuild them because they were just no good. Free models are ok if you're in a hurry or on a tight budget, but I would not make a habit of downloading them. It's not worth the hassle. Learn to build your own models.

I d/l a family (man, lady, 1 child), 1 or 2 men, and 1 sleeping boy, all naked free models, and I'd to add my own clothes to their bodies (yes, I understand what Mr. Stabby is saying about free models having no body underneath their clothes) but I've never made clothes before b/c I had no people models. Right now since I'm on a tight budget and in a hurry to create my first DVD movie, I'm now thinking of d/l just the naked people models and putting clothes/hair on their bodies so the cloth/fur/hair modifier will work and these models will look realistic in my movie. So is it hard to add clothes to a naked model?

Do I need a book that has tuts for clothing these models or what?

So is it hard to add clothes to a naked model?

 

Do I need a book that has tuts for clothing these models or what?

I've never worked on characters in Studio Max. As I mentioned in another thread, ZBrush is much better for creating characters. And I've never animated a character, so I've never had to worry about cloth deforming or any issues related to character movement.

I thought you already purchased a book on character modeling and animation?

You're venturing into an area that is highly technical and very difficult. I'm an environment artist, so I really don't have any experience with characters and animation. You should probably be asking these types of questions over at Max Forums or another Studio Max specific forum where you can get advice from animators.

So is it hard to add clothes to a naked model?

Historically speaking, the consensus seems to be,

that it is more difficult to remove the clothes from a clad model.

There is just so much more competition.

I just d/l and added the long hair material to this girl in pink model here http://www.3dmodelfree.com/models/26208-0.htm

but why does the model's hair (and the model & its clothes) look so real in this image

but looks like plastic hair after I added the long hair texture (bitmap) material?

As I said, I've already d/l Blender, and the next time I go to Barnes & Noble I'm going to order this book http://search.barnesandnoble.com/Character-Development-in-Blender-25/Jonathan-Williamson/e/9781435456259

and hopefully this May - July I'm going to try to get my hands on that input device (Wacom Bamboo capture tablet & pen) from the link you gave me, but for now, I'm going to try playing around with a model using Blender and the mouse.

I just d/l and added the long hair material to this girl in pink model here

 

but why does the model's hair (and the model & its clothes) look so real in this image

 

but looks like plastic hair after I added the long hair texture (bitmap) material?

The model looks real in the image because that is a render. The rendering process creates the realistic looking image.

You're looking at the model in your viewport, where it's just the model with textures applied. So yes, it will always look like plastic in your viewport.

 

I thought you already purchased a book on character modeling and animation?

Yes, 2 books. First book " modeling a character in 3ds max" by Paul Steed, and another book "3ds max animation with biped" by Michele Bousquet and Michael McCarthy.

In the first book, "modeling a character" the author is telling me to get drawings of whatever model I want to make, go into max and draw a bunch of lines (more tedious than cutting images out of photos in photoshop) and move them around, I tried this already but it didn't work out, btw I didn't want to draw a bunch of lines, I really wanted to get into (I understand that these lines are only guides) the actual 3D modeling (the head, which starts in chapter 4 of that book, tweaking the shape, then the hair, next the torso, etc,) to get comfortable with creating my own characters but gee, in order to be able to animate these characters I'm now going to try to create using Paul Steed's book, don't I first have to make a skeleton then add the body (skinning) or what (actually I don't want to waste time drawing a bunch of lines)?

The model looks real in the image because that is a render. The rendering process creates the realistic looking image.

You're looking at the model in your viewport, where it's just the model with textures applied. So yes, it will always look like plastic in your viewport.

So what will happen if I just use these naked models that I just d/l, add my own clothes/hair, cloth/hair modifier, and render them - will they look real?

and what about these clad models that I've already d/l, if I render them, will they look real?

I'm using Paul Steed's book now, starting with chapter 4, modeling the head. (Yes I understand this is a max 6 book) but I want to make my models look real upon render/animation in a movie, so what shape do I start off with to model the head - sphere or geosphere?

Paul recommends use a geosphere for the head but why - I don't get it?

in order to be able to animate these characters I'm now going to try to create using Paul Steed's book, don't I first have to make a skeleton then add the body (skinning) or what (actually I don't want to waste time drawing a bunch of lines)?

No, you don't need a skeleton. Is that why you were asking for a tutorial on building a model of a skeleton in that other thread?

What you need is the biped shown in the videos below. These videos show you how to rig your character for animation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZvvj0yiQTg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fads57AaH_0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5y0ufsp5tDI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-eGm7et7jbI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GyaTeFE0zo8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkVV7Ts849Q

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1HU47gHjq4&list=UUVEVDxeGFtoMtTEAwqQGGBg&index=27

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSzv2FPwxUM&list=UUVEVDxeGFtoMtTEAwqQGGBg&index=26

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sqAzhEUBDxM&list=UUVEVDxeGFtoMtTEAwqQGGBg&index=25

So what will happen if I just use these naked models that I just d/l, add my own clothes/hair, cloth/hair modifier, and render them - will they look real?

They will if do a good job.

and what about these clad models that I've already d/l, if I render them, will they look real?

Why don't you render them and find out.

I'm using Paul Steed's book now, starting with chapter 4, modeling the head. (Yes I understand this is a max 6 book) but I want to make my models look real upon render/animation in a movie, so what shape do I start off with to model the head - sphere or geosphere?

 

Paul recommends use a geosphere for the head but why - I don't get it?

The sphere has a pole at each end. A pole is the section of the sphere where all the edges come together at the top and bottom. Poles can cause problems with smoothing and rendering. That's why the geosphere is better. It has no poles. I'm surprised Paul didn't discuss the pros and cons of sphere's vs. geospheres.

The geosphere is made up of triangles though, so it may not be ideal.

Geosphere - http://docs.autodesk.com/3DSMAX/15/ENU/3ds-Max-Help/index.html?url=files/GUID-ADCB4D06-BD52-4D0A-A367-63FCBC37A848.htm,topicNumber=d30e26840

The best option would be to start with a sphere that is all quads. This video shows you how to create one using a cube, turbosmooth and spherify modifier: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-X1eevWU9s

No, I just wanted to created an emaciated looking young male tween (10 - 12 years old) character that's a non-human being (a being/person from another planet, actually) that has 6 fingers, 6 toes, but I didn't know how to do this?

Ok, here are my renders of these clad models that I d/l:

I opened this model in max, went to render at the top of the max screen, and just clicked "render" at the topmost. this model still does not look real, it looks fake like its plastic model, or like its modeled from play-doh.

and here's my 3 men render. They, too, look fake like this "Dr. Sticknee" (first model) render.

But I'm glad my naked models will look real when clad (provided I do a good job) using the textures from this site http://www.mb3d.co.uk/mb3d/Organic_Seamless_and_Tileable_High_Res_Textures.html

I guess these rendered models look fake b/c they're free?

So I think I'll practice clothing and animating my naked models (I'm so glad they don't need a skeleton in order to be successfully animated) and creating my own characters.

One thing that you really need to understand is that your characters probably will not look real. Or at least not real in the way that you think they will. Creating realistic looking humans is probably the single most difficult thing there is to do in computer animation. And since you are a beginner, your characters probably won't look much better than the ones you downloaded. It takes years of training and practice to get to the level where you can create and animate characters that look somewhat realistic. I suggest you study your books very carefully and watch a lot of training videos. You've got a long road ahead of you.

On a side note, here's a program that might interest you: http://poser.smithmicro.com/poser.html

Is Poser 2012 like a basic photo editing program (like Picture It 99 - first photo editing program I cut my teeth in Sept '98 on before I advanced to photoshop in Jan '06) here http://www.amazon.com/Microsoft-Graphics-Studio-Picture-It/dp/B000EPVRHG/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1358960950&sr=8-1&keywords=picture+it+99 whereas 3DS Max is like Photoshop (more advanced, has more features than the former program)?

I'm currently copying Poser 2012 onto my laptop from backup media atm.