Master Cad File

Gentlemen,

So I prefer to utilize a Master File for a Project where i can open it and manipulate all my drawings ensuring all have the same annotative types, scales, line types.... it also makes it much easier to manage title block's and other blocks that have multiple entry's that are duplicated throughout many drawings with slight variations.

One problem I have is I am mixing Mechanical and Electrical Drawings in these master files. I do everything to scale and this creates title blocks that are the scale of 1, 2,4,5,8,10..... So my annotative scale changes frequently. When I do this for example I annotated a Scale 2 drawing and than I go to annotate a scale 5 drawing and the scale 2 drawing shows the annotative items in a scale of 5 which obviously doesn't fit on the drawing.

How do I make the annotative scale retentive?

Second thing its not a problem more of a want. I know I can Mview into the model for paper space, can i Mview into another file? I started drafting by having to teach myself with no input from others. I started using paper space and model space and putting everything in one file; however, apparently industry standard is to have one file per drawing... I don't like it but i have to follow the rules. Than i can make a DSD once and when i plot it will auto update the slave files from the master file.

I tried doing paper space then exporting the stuff to a single file but if their is any model item's within the paper-space it gets all screwed up so that's a no go. In addition there is the process of exporting all the time which is time consuming...

Any insight would be helpful, Thank You.

Doesn't the system variable ANNOALLVISIBLE control what annotative scales are visible?

0 - Only annotative objects that support the current annotation scale are displayed.

1 - All annotative objects are displayed.

So I prefer to utilize a Master File for a Project where i can open it and manipulate all my drawings ensuring all have the same annotative types, scales, line types.... it also makes it much easier to manage title block's and other blocks that have multiple entry's that are duplicated throughout many drawings with slight variations.

 

I'm not super familiar with annotative scale, but with regards to this, have you ever looked into making a template file? You can have in there all of the line types, layers, dimension styles, text styles, etc. that you need. That way you will have consistency in all of your drawings.

At my old job, we used to have a title block drawing in each job folder that we would x-ref into each drawing for that job. Certain information that was specific only to that sheet, such as the sheet number or title, was just inserted as regular text into the drawing.

I'm not super familiar with annotative scale, but with regards to this, have you ever looked into making a template file? You can have in there all of the line types, layers, dimension styles, text styles, etc. that you need. That way you will have consistency in all of your drawings.

At my old job, we used to have a title block drawing in each job folder that we would x-ref into each drawing for that job. Certain information that was specific only to that sheet, such as the sheet number or title, was just inserted as regular text into the drawing.

Yes, I have a title block and all the line type layer type everything is on it. I can insert and define scales and what not. I do not make a specific title block per project my drawing packages are generally 20 - 30 pages for most of the work i rarely get into the 5-2k range. I find it easier to have every drawing in one file, even my ME's drawings I put into the Master file and I just select the title block's for all his work or mine and for who approved what and mass edit than copy and paste the page for that drawing into its own file. Its much easier to mass edit / pull objects or other stuff when everything is in one file. Opening and closing files to check stuff and copy other item's becomes very time consuming (and annoying).

Can i Xref into a Master File? When I batch plot, is the Xref updated without opening the file?

Doesn't the system variable ANNOALLVISIBLE control what annotative scales are visible?

 

0 - Only annotative objects that support the current annotation scale are displayed.

 

1 - All annotative objects are displayed.

I think my question is slightly misleading. I do not want the annotative objects to support more than one scale, i want the scale that was utilized when creating it to be retentive, when i change the annotative scale within the master file i do not want the previous annotative objects to support that scale.

Frankly, when i copy and paste into their separate files i just change the annotative scale in that drawing to X and the other annotative scales are not displayed even though they are there... just trying to remove one more step in breaking out the master file.

Yes, I have a title block and all the line type layer type everything is on it. I can insert and define scales and what not. I do not make a specific title block per project my drawing packages are generally 20 - 30 pages for most of the work i rarely get into the 5-2k range. I find it easier to have every drawing in one file, even my ME's drawings I put into the Master file and I just select the title block's for all his work or mine and for who approved what and mass edit than copy and paste the page for that drawing into its own file. Its much easier to mass edit / pull objects or other stuff when everything is in one file. Opening and closing files to check stuff and copy other item's becomes very time consuming (and annoying).

 

Can i Xref into a Master File? When I batch plot, is the Xref updated without opening the file?

Not exactly sure what you mean by a Master File, but you can xref into any drawing. And you can have multiple xrefs in a drawing.

I think the xref updates when the drawing is opened. So I don't know what would happen if you were to batch plot. Maybe someone else can expound on that process.

Yes, xrefs will update when you batch plot. You don't necessarily need to open each individual sheet.

I think you might want to try ANNOAUTOSCALE. Set that to -4

There is a button in the bottom corner. It prevents adding a scale to annotative objects, that way you can do it manually

There are many good reasons for not doing things the way you are doing them. I'm not going to list them but let me offer this up. Your reasoning is sound in theory but as you are finding, not so good in practice. A good set of standards and a good template is probably the best way to ensure consistency from drawing to drawing and project to project.

Here is a way to make your current system work. Utilize LOCKED paper space viewports. The annotation scales can be set for the area being worked on independently of the model space setting. You can then work "through" the viewports and only see the annotation scale that you are working on. There are some other settings that you may need to tweak this to fit your needs. Post back with any questions about particulars. This should get your method to work the way you would like but I strongly suggest you find another way that is closer to "industry standards".

I think you might want to try ANNOAUTOSCALE. Set that to -4

Thank You, this is what i was looking for.

There are many good reasons for not doing things the way you are doing them. I'm not going to list them but let me offer this up. Your reasoning is sound in theory but as you are finding, not so good in practice. A good set of standards and a good template is probably the best way to ensure consistency from drawing to drawing and project to project.

I have templates; however, this wont define spacing and centering and wont allow me to easily steal items from other pages.

I tried using Paper-space and was told "This is not Industry Standard" 1 drawing file per page is standard, this falls in line with the many third party engineering firms I work with as well. I started using Auto-cad out of necessity and have never been to a class, when I started I was using paper-space with locked view-ports as you suggest. Industry hasn't caught up to Paper-space, in fact I have gotten in the past many questions "can you send me the rest of the pages" regardless paper-space becomes cumbersome when there are to many pages, and mass editing is not easy.. it only removes the two step's of opening and saving.

I would appreciate knowing why I shouldn't be doing this, not because I want to challenge you but because everyone has a point of view and they are valid.

- Thank You.

I don't know where you are getting your information from but I've been doing this for 15 years and have been using paper space the entire time. Most of the time with multiple layouts per file. Not using paper space is a hold over from the days before it existed. There are probably many discussions about this here at CADTutor. Have a look around and come back with any questions.

I don't have time ATM to go into any more detail.

Thank You, this is what i was looking for.

Glad it was solved, no problem!

I have templates; however, this wont define spacing and centering and wont allow me to easily steal items from other pages.

 

I tried using Paper-space and was told "This is not Industry Standard" 1 drawing file per page is standard, this falls in line with the many third party engineering firms I work with as well. I started using Auto-cad out of necessity and have never been to a class, when I started I was using paper-space with locked view-ports as you suggest. Industry hasn't caught up to Paper-space, in fact I have gotten in the past many questions "can you send me the rest of the pages" regardless paper-space becomes cumbersome when there are to many pages, and mass editing is not easy.. it only removes the two step's of opening and saving.

 

I would appreciate knowing why I shouldn't be doing this, not because I want to challenge you but because everyone has a point of view and they are valid.

 

- Thank You.

I haven't been using AutoCAD as long as RobDraw, but since I've been around, using paper space has been standard. What were you drawing in paper space that made them tell you it was not industry standard?

Having one file per sheet makes things a lot cleaner and more organized, in my opinion.

Have you made blocks of the objects you are using in all of your drawings? Creating those will eliminate the need to have a drawing open to directly copy and paste.

Is it possible for you to take a beginner AutoCAD class? I'm not sure what area in Southern California you are in, but I went to Orange Coast College and was able to take classes there at night. I'm sure there are many other places where you can take a class on or two nights a week that are fairly inexpensive. Or your work could probably pay for you to go.

Using Paper Space is used extensively based on my using AutoCAD since 1988; as soon as it was available everyone was using it. Now how it is used is always up for debate. Some firms want a model file done in MS and separate files with the model file xref'd in, with one layout showing a portion of the model. On large projects with multiple employees this makes a lot of sense. If you have everything in one file (model and multiple layouts) then only one person at a time can work on it.

I am a one man shop now but I still will have architectural layout drawings for several floors and those are xref'd into mechanical and electrical drawings. Each discipline file may have several layouts.

I tried using Paper-space and was told "This is not Industry Standard" 1 drawing file per page is standard

Then you are not following this standard. In fact, you are doing the opposite as you are probably already aware.

The company I work for has just changed their file naming convention to include the sheet number in the file name. This is forcing us to go to one sheet per file from files with multiple layouts. We still haven't ironed out all the details but, for our floor plans that won't fit on a single sheet which is most projects, we will have to XREF the overall plan into multiple files. Breaking the floor plan into multiple part plans does not make sense for us. Our detail and schedule sheets, which are usually multiple sheets per project, might be separated but I'm leaning toward a similar approach with XREFing a master into multiple individual sheet files.

On a personal note, I didn't want to make the change (In fact, I practically begged for not going that route.) but, as you said, this seems to be the industry standard. The old system was easy for me but not so easy for most of the people in my place of work. On the positive side, I will be implementing some sort of sheet management utility which hopefully will make that part of my job even easier than it was before the change.

...I will be implementing some sort of sheet management utility which hopefully will make that part of my job even easier than it was before the change.

Look into sheet sets. They are simple and VERY useful for multiple files and layouts. Plus they are in autocad.

Then you are not following this standard. In fact, you are doing the opposite as you are probably already aware.

 

The company I work for has just changed their file naming convention to include the sheet number in the file name. This is forcing us to go to one sheet per file from files with multiple layouts. We still haven't ironed out all the details but, for our floor plans that won't fit on a single sheet which is most projects, we will have to XREF the overall plan into multiple files. Breaking the floor plan into multiple part plans does not make sense for us. Our detail and schedule sheets, which are usually multiple sheets per project, might be separated but I'm leaning toward a similar approach with XREFing a master into multiple individual sheet files.

So you say it is Not Industry Standard and I shouldn't do it, than you say you are doing it? I see how you operate....

Carefull, I was using Xref, and i have an attachment on my title block. When i tried to trim the border of the XREF to the individual file the attachment's from the other drawings were still there.. Let me build a picture in your head... A row of 10 drawings, all with title block's that have the attachment (company logo). Xref into Drawing XXXXXXXXX, clip to Drawing #1 (closest to the left) all the other drawings disappear except for the attachments of the other 9 drawings.. So the Batch Plot (to extents) is zoomed way out...

Anyone got a fix for that??

BTW, XCLIPFRAME SET 0 will remove the clip frame from the Xref Clippings...

So you say it is Not Industry Standard and I shouldn't do it, than you say you are doing it? I see how you operate....

 

Carefull, I was using Xref, and i have an attachment on my title block. When i tried to trim the border of the XREF to the individual file the attachment's from the other drawings were still there.. Let me build a picture in your head... A row of 10 drawings, all with title block's that have the attachment (company logo). Xref into Drawing XXXXXXXXX, clip to Drawing #1 (closest to the left) all the other drawings disappear except for the attachments of the other 9 drawings.. So the Batch Plot (to extents) is zoomed way out...

 

Anyone got a fix for that??

 

BTW, XCLIPFRAME SET 0 will remove the clip frame from the Xref Clippings...

If you don't want those other 9 xrefs coming along with "Drawing #1" change them from attachments to overlays.

So you say it is Not Industry Standard and I shouldn't do it, than you say you are doing it? I see how you operate....

I said no such thing. I was trying to give you advice as to what I've seen and the way the company I work for does things. I know exactly how you are operating. I've seen it before. It's an old method that is a throw back to the days before paper space. People using this are resistant to change and refuse to embrace new technology. People like that get under my skin and so do ungrateful people that jump to incorrect conclusions.