Bad CAD

I recently started working with someone who does not do any CADing himself. He actually relies heavily on one of the worst drafters I've ever seen. The drafter is being dealt with and that is not the subject of my question.

This designer is very good at what he does but doesn't seem to care about standards. His dwgs start off bad and get worse but for some reason he doesn't see the need to address the issues. These are basic drafting 101 issues, line weights, text heights, objects cut off by viewports, etc. In fact, I think he is directing the drafter to do some non-standard things.

When I broached the subject with him yesterday with a QE graphic review that I did with our CAD manager, his response was, "Well, if we can get to it, we'll talk about it." and went on to ask if the drawings for the other trades were reviewed. I couldn't lie and tell him, "Yes." I had to tell him that they weren't because they were not having the issues that his drawings had. He actually took offense to that so we are putting the rest of the drawings through a graphic review to ease tensions.

This designer has also stated that he is going to continue doing things that we do not due because, "That is the way he has always done it." One of the policies that he has chosen to not follow is in the interest of not chasing minor details. He wastes a lot of time doing these things but thinks it's a waste of time fixing blatant errors on his drawings.

Has anyone worked with someone in authority that doesn't care about company standards? Have you found a constructive way of dealing with someone like this?

If the designer is not doing any drafting work himself then how is it his fault if the drafting work is poor? Standards are not in place for every situation and variations will occur. I am a strong supporter of good drafting though.

Was he employed to design or was he employed to enforce CAD standards? Only one makes money for your employer.

When I saw that you responded, I knew you were going relate to him and not address my question. Why do you have to be like that?

In my world, the designers are responsible for making sure standards are followed and not direct the drafters to do non-standard stuff. This drafter is really bad but like I said, that is not the issue I would like to discuss. This is not a thread about standards but how to deal with a type of person. Please stay on topic. It is important that I deal with this person in an that does not cause tension so we can put out a quality product, not crap.

I would stress that the company desires to put out a quality product and that it all starts with the engineer/designer. Technically it is not up to the draftsman to catch and correct mistakes made by the engineer but I know that those of us with some semblance of responsibility (and a conscience to boot) do take on the task mainly because of the pride we have in our work. Have you sought the advice of a couple of the other designers? Maybe if a small group of you met with this particular designer and stressed the quality aspect he might feel compelled to come around to the company's preferred way of doing things.

Good advise, ReMark. That is being done but I'm afraid that it is not going to be that easy. There are people here that have history with him and he really is stuck in his ways. The unfortunate part is that I am in charge of the drawing sets that his drawings are a part of and he is directing this particular drafter to do things that should be done at my level to ensure accuracy and consistency between trades. He does this without consulting with me or directing the drafter to consult with me. Then when I fix things that were done wrong, (Not just from a standard point of view. They just don't work correctly.) he asks me not to change his plans. I've got absolutely no patience for people who are oblivious or just do not care. We've already come close to verbal blows more than once because of this attitude. Aside from this, he is one of the nicest guys you will ever meet, which makes it even harder. There are other people here that are similar that I don't have to work with directly on a regular basis and they are real jerks which makes it easy to just sweep the situation under the rug. For now, I have to find a way to deal with this guy. Management has told me that if things get heated I should walk away and get them involved but I feel like I'm a kid running to the teacher to tell on someone breaking the rules when I do that.

How is the drafter that he works with "being dealt with"? Will he be instructed to consult with you? Are you the person ultimately responsible for how the drawings look? Does your company publish a set of drafting standards for employees to follow?

I do not want to discuss that in this thread.

I would involve the higher ups. If you are put in the position of handling his drawings, and he refuses to recognize that you have that authority, someone that has authority over him needs to make him see the situation. It will probably get ugly though, but it doesn't sound like there is a non-ugly way out of this, at least if you don't want to come in after hours and sneakily change his plans before release.

I get that you don't want to discuss the drafter - but if this guy doesn't draw, then if you can get the drafter on your side, and no matter that this guy does, the drafter comes to you, then that would be a work-around I think.

But whatever you do, I would really recommend to involve the higherups.

Thank you, Tiger. I think you are right about it getting ugly, which is the part I am trying to avoid.

As to your advice about the drafter. Since you are not talking about correcting the drafting, I will respond. I will try the personal approach and put on my kid gloves. That may actually help ease tensions between me and the designer.

It can be as easy has he gives you a heads up that now he's gotten some crazy directions again. And the other way around, that you inform the drafter as well as the designer what needs to be done/changed, so the designer can't convolute what you say.

Sometimes it has to get ugly. Or at least, everything needs to brought up to the light. It could be that the designer has some other issue/issues that is holding him back from accepting advice/corrections. This is just a mad idea, but it could be that if he's not the Alimighty Designer anymore, then he is afraid he'll loose his job or get reduced pay or anything. You never know what goes on in a persons head.

Not an easy situation to deal with. An approach I would take is that of a customer/service provider.

You being his customer - him being the provider. You having to answer to your customer and him not allowing you to provide good service to them.

Yeah, I know it sounds all hairy fairy and all.

When I saw that you responded, I knew you were going relate to him and not address my question. Why do you have to be like that?

Great attitude, you may be destined for management

In my world, the designers are responsible for making sure standards are followed and not direct the drafters to do non-standard stuff.

I am an engineer/designer who often does their own CAD work. I am very proficient with CAD (more so than our drafters) and it is often quicker for me to do it myself than direct others to, review, markup, review etc. However, I do give drafting work to our drafters when I am either too busy to do it myself or they need work to do.

I am somewhat of a perfectionist with MY CAD drafting. Everything has to perfect, text neatly aligned, arrow leaders all the same size extension and same angle etc etc. Our drafters aren't the same. When reviewing plans drafted by others I am not looking at how neat their arrows are etc or whether their their text is perfectly aligned; if I cared about that stuff then we would never get the designs out due to the ad finitum drafting changes required. However, if the wrong font has been used for notes or there is a typo or anything design wise is misrepresented/wrong then that is redlined and changed (and checked again).

So I actually know the CAD standards (I revised them so know them better than most) and generally they are followed. However everyone drafts slightly differently and we can't make everyone 100% identical. If a particular engineer wants to draw something different then it is up to them to direct the drafter too and this is fine. If it must be non standard to convey the design then so be it.

Many of our engineers do not even know our CAD standards as they can't use CAD.

This is not a thread about standards but how to deal with a type of person. Please stay on topic. It is important that I deal with this person in an that does not cause tension so we can put out a quality product, not crap.

As you said, they are a good designer. So let them continue to design and review their plans as they see fit. If the problem is with the drafter, then deal with it. An alternative way to deal with it is to pull that particular drafter from the particular designers jobs and you yourself personally do this designers drafting and walk through why you do things/why you won't; obviously you need support from management for this to occur.

He does this without consulting with me or directing the drafter to consult with me. We've already come close to verbal blows more than once because of this attitude. Aside from this, he is one of the nicest guys you will ever meet, which makes it even harder. Management has told me that if things get heated I should walk away and get them involved but I feel like I'm a kid running to the teacher to tell on someone breaking the rules when I do that.

So who will management ultimately back? Is the designer more valuable to the company or are you? Are you his boss or is he your boss?

You really are off base and missing a lot of the information I have provided. I am not going to reiterate it for you either as I don't like your attitude.

This designer is very good at what he does but doesn't seem to care about standards.

When someone is using a drawing based CAD application, adhering to standards is integral for accuracy, efficiency and future design changes. Not only that it is the first thing clients and contractors see and it makes a statement of how your company is represented. A good analogy I like to use is the most important instrument in a live band: the drummer. Even though guitars and vocals usually take precedence as the audible focal point, slight imperfections can and will be overlooked easily. But what is the crowd's groove normally being driven by? The rhythm of the beat from the drummer. One slight mishap and everyone will point it out immediately because it's the foundation of the entire ensemble. Same with an issued set of plans. Page to page, if there are slight imperfections of the landing of a leader head, or a non-consistent font/text size, or linework that far too bold or way too thin, will all stand out. The design intent aside, that's the first thing that is noticed.

This is why good standards when using a drafting program is really key. No, it's vital in my opinion and should not be tolerated if someone is purposely disregarding standards. I'm not saying this situation should be dealt with extreme force at all. Maybe when you guys find yourself at lunch, approach the individual(s) in a constructive manner or something, as one co-worker showing sincere concern to another co-worker.

I understand some people are hard to get through. At my last company our "senior" drafter who is in his early 50's and has made a career of this for more than three decades just didn't "get it". He wasn't horrible, but he was and never will be great at using AutoCAD, so we all just worked around it and had certain expectations when he was mutually on a job me and others.

My $0.02 worth. Hope it works out for you Rob.

-Tannar

I keep coming back to this particular sentence. To me, it's contradictory. I believe that standards are directly related to being a "good" drafter. If you do not have good standards then you are inherently not a good drafter.... wouldn't you agree?

How is it contradictory? You can be a brilliant designer and not know the first thing about AutoCad (e.g. you design on paper, direct someone how to do the design or design in a third party program and export the linework as a .dwg for someone else to draft [most common]). What matters to clients is how the design looks on paper, not how it looks in AutoCad.

You really are off base and missing a lot of the information I have provided. I am not going to reiterate it for you either as I don't like your attitude.

I don't see what I have missed. Either you're the designers boss and should deal with the issue or he is your boss and you personally should accept it unless you want to take the issue to his boss. It comes back to whether the designer was hired and is paid to design, or to enforce CAD standards.

I keep coming back to this particular sentence. To me, it's contradictory.

I should have specified CAD standards, sorry.

Does the drafter work for your company or is he hired by the designer? It may be a bit difficult to enforce standards if the drafter was hired by the designer and does not work directly for your company. I have seen drafter get hired on by the company and work with the same designer to ensure CAD standards are followed.

The drafter is an employee of the company and that is a separate issue that is being "handled" by other people. In fact, upper management is aware of that ongoing issue. That is why I am not discussing particulars about the drafter as I kind of have to wait and see what happens.

Keep us posted on how it pans out.