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2-D drafting a dying trade in any industry.


greythorne

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Hi just want your opinions on the subject. Was wondering if this is the case going forward since we have BIM on the rise, eventually all will be in 3-D.

 

Currently I'm in the Oil & Gas industry as a project draftsman and most of the drawing is produced in 2-D which anyone which basic knowledge of AutoCAD should be able to produce. This makes my AutoCAD skills not worth much unless i move on to do 3-D design. Btw I'm located in Singapore.

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Hi and welcome to the forum and congratulations on opening a can of worms!

 

I will say that a lot more will be in 3D than what is done now, and I think that 3D will become common in all industries, now it seems to clumped together in some industries. So to expand your knowledge with 3D-capabilities is a good way to go.

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Hi and welcome to the forum and congratulations on opening a can of worms!

 

I will say that a lot more will be in 3D than what is done now, and I think that 3D will become common in all industries, now it seems to clumped together in some industries. So to expand your knowledge with 3D-capabilities is a good way to go.

 

Thank you Tiger. If anyone in the Oil & Gas industry may want to chip in. Also may i use the opportunity here to ask if there is any good books that teaches AutoCAD 3-D without using too much words.

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3D capabilities are going to be pretty much the norm for the architectural and MEP fields. It already is for mechanical engineering. Not being able to do any 3D is going to limit your job opportunities more and more.

 

There are a number drafters here that create schematic and P&ID drawings who I'd like to hear from on this. Being 2D in nature will these types of drawings start getting "smarter" and get a 3D "feel" to them? Will they be able to be created from BIM models?

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In the department where I work we model in 3-D, but all of our fabrication drawings are in 2-D, however there are only two drafters in my department out of 10 on the floor. As far as I know only 4 people know AutoCAD 3-D including myself and the other drafter in my department. I sometimes do 3-D models for other drafters because they simply don’t know or “forgot” how to do 3-D in AutoCAD. What might take me 15 minutes would take them hours, if you don’t use it…………….

 

As far as a good book goes I don’t know of a good one specifically for 3-D, I just learned the basics and jumped into the deep end of the pool. Basics for solids being use a closed polyline and the commands; extrude, extrude path, revolve, union, subtract, and intersect. As I became a bit more advanced I learned about press/pull, loft, slice, sweep (similar to extrude path), and helix.

 

For every command I know in AutoCAD, I think there are at least 3 I don’t know.

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There are a number drafters here that create schematic and P&ID drawings who I'd like to hear from on this. Being 2D in nature will these types of drawings start getting "smarter" and get a 3D "feel" to them? Will they be able to be created from BIM models?

 

The Flow Diagrams and P&ID drawings are done first, approved, and then the model and / or drawings are created from that information. Same with Electrical One-Lines.

 

They are getting smarter, Autodesk has P&ID and Electrical packages, etc.

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I think the demise of 2D drafting will be a long, slow process so I would not be singing any funeral dirges just yet. For example, P&IDs, process flow/block diagrams, electrical schematics, plot plans and floor plans really don't need to be done in 3D. What would be the point? I see 2D isometrics being replaced by 3D isometrics though.

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I think the demise of 2D drafting will be a long, slow process so I would not be singing any funeral dirges just yet. For example, P&IDs, process flow/block diagrams, electrical schematics, plot plans and floor plans really don't need to be done in 3D. What would be the point? I see 2D isometrics being replaced by 3D isometrics though.

 

Shop drawings are never in 3d ain't no need for them shop personnel (welders and assemblers along with plasma cutting) do not work with them.

 

I often do 3d to be able to get exact dimensions on angular cut outs for special parts but that's it

 

Although for sending a presentation i would recommend it otherwise no need to send the extra hours doing it period.

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I think the demise of 2D drafting will be a long, slow process so I would not be singing any funeral dirges just yet. For example, P&IDs, process flow/block diagrams, electrical schematics, plot plans and floor plans really don't need to be done in 3D.
These are really bad examples. P&ID's, process diagrams and electrical schematics are in no way capable of being 3D, hence the terms like "diagram" and "schematic". In the original post the poster does mention "drawings" but he is vague on what "type" of drawings he's producing. The list that you gave will never be 3D because they're not 3D by nature, nor is it intended to be. But if the original poster intended to mean "drawings" as in a form of piping and equipment that represents real-world configuration, coordination, robust BOM's and scheduling data, then yes it can and should be 3D. It's this form of 2D drafting that's definitely on it's way out the door and very quickly.

 

Some things just make much more sense to use a 3D approach: to have infinite viewing angles and to use 3D geometry to visually coordinate objects in "space". Also to compile these items into assemblies, or generate bidirectional link of information for automated BOM.

 

So ultimately it depends on how one define's "drawings".

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Although BIM is a catchy word often heard in the construction industry, it is still a couple of decades away from being utilized everywhere. It's great that people can make 3D models in a CAD environment, but the huge tradeoff I've experienced is a complete collapse in the documentation process. I have had to work with so many architectural drawings done in Revit (or similar software) for projects done in the US and Canada, where I had to pull my hair out trying to figure out basic dimensions and even notes about what is drawn. It's not that it can't be done, but rather that so much time is spent making the model that it leaves little time left to prepare a proper working set of drawings that will be used by all trades. Until this gets rectified, there will always be a need for good 2D draftsmen out there that can produce quality sketches used for all those RFI's needed to clarify what was drawn on the architectural sets.

 

2D drawings will always be used by smaller manufacturing companies that can't afford to use 3D drawings due to elevated cost in software, hardware and higher salaries for draftsmen that specializes in 3D drafting.

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Although BIM is a catchy word often heard in the construction industry, it is still a couple of decades away from being utilized everywhere.
Man you are not kidding.... BIM is definitely an exploited term. Bigtime. It's so bad, in fact, it's left a bad taste in many contractors mind's. I don't blame them, either, since 3D Spatial Coordination is NOT "BIM". In my opinion, Revit is the only platform that gives you a 100% BIM compatible platform. And I tend to remind people that BIM is a subsequent process under the VDC environment. As soon as you do not have Revit being used in your project, from that point forward it's now officially not a BIM process. Luckily for me, at my place of employment, we use BIM the way it was intended. Even our sub-contractors are on board with us, using Revit in a Revit Server environment. Gotta love real-time BIM coordination!! :)

 

I have had to work with so many architectural drawings done in Revit (or similar software) for projects done in the US and Canada, where I had to pull my hair out trying to figure out basic dimensions and even notes about what is drawn. It's not that it can't be done, but rather that so much time is spent making the model that it leaves little time left to prepare a proper working set of drawings that will be used by all trades. Until this gets rectified, there will always be a need for good 2D draftsmen out there that can produce quality sketches used for all those RFI's needed to clarify what was drawn on the architectural sets.
I think it's people who don't know how to use Revit to the fullest capabilities yet. I have a PDF example floating around here somewhere showing an HVAC plan I did and the untrained eye can't tell it was done in 3D software.
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"These are really bad examples. P&ID's, process diagrams and electrical schematics are in no way capable of being 3D..."

 

Thank you for confirming 2D is not dead after all.

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2D "per-se" is not dead. 2D drafting is dying in certain industries. It's not even that it's "dying", it's just being phased out because what 3D designing can currently offer is greater than what 2D drafting can.

 

We live and interact in a 3D world. So the things that can be designed in the third dimension, will be and should be. I was talking with one of our HVAC mechanical subcontractors yesterday at a meeting and I asked him about a new job they're doing as a design/build with the architect and structural engineer. He went on to say it's a game changer versus the 2D drafting method they've always used. No more searching the 2D details to understand a building... he likes having an unprecedented access to building information that is simply not available by means of 2D drafting.

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2D "per-se" is not dead. 2D drafting is dying in certain industries. It's not even that it's "dying", it's just being phased out because what 3D designing can currently offer is greater than what 2D drafting can.

 

We live and interact in a 3D world. So the things that can be designed in the third dimension, will be and should be. I was talking with one of our HVAC mechanical subcontractors yesterday at a meeting and I asked him about a new job they're doing as a design/build with the architect and structural engineer. He went on to say it's a game changer versus the 2D drafting method they've always used. No more searching the 2D details to understand a building... he likes having an unprecedented access to building information that is simply not available by means of 2D drafting.

 

Like i did mention 3d for presentation rules but when it comes to shop drawings 3d was never born and not about to happen before the turn of the century.

Shop personnel do not have overhaul picture anyway never mind 3d in their case

 

We are still a long way in order to get minds to interpret 3d and apply to the workforce doing the labouring task of producing parts.

 

Flat stock to be cut and welded in the shop will always be cut and welded in 2d period. 3d will only be the final results sitting on the floor but who cares unit will be shipped to the client and workers will be working on the next job so the last one will be long forgotten the next day after shipping.

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We have been supplying our fabrication shop with 3D drawings for tanks, platforms, stairs, railings, safety rings, etc. for several years. While reluctant at first they now come to expect to see these types of drawings on every major job.

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3d for presentation rules but when it comes to shop drawings 3d was never born and not about to happen before the turn of the century.

Shop personnel do not have overhaul picture anyway never mind 3d in their case

 

Those of us doing 3D can reduce the number of shop drawings, dramatically.

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We have been supplying our fabrication shop with 3D drawings for tanks, platforms, stairs, railings, safety rings, etc. for several years. While reluctant at first they now come to expect to see these types of drawings on every major job.

 

Did not come across one in the past ten years or maybe i did but did not notice it

maybe i should look into it further.

Show me one complete set i can open with cad 2012 i really need to see the flavor of it and who knows maybe i will follow the trend and go 3d in the future.

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Those of us doing 3D can reduce the number of shop drawings, dramatically.

 

Show me one complete set i can open with cad2012 i really need to see the flavor of it and it will be easier for me to compare with one of mine and who knows if suitable i will go 3d in the future.

 

If like you say reduced drawings most certainly details and layouts are omitted or data missing somewhere along with layout planning and nesting for plasma table cutting also missing along with individual parts.

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"We are still a long way in order to get minds to interpret 3d..."

 

If your fabricators cannot envision a project in 3D maybe you need to hire some who can? Personally I believe anyone who fabricates a machine part, a storage tank, or something as simple as a flower pot can "think" in 3D.

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