1 closed, degenerate or unsupported object rejected

Hi There,

I have a frustrating issue and do not know how to overcome.

I produce a 3d part by drawing a 2d shape and extrude to desired thickness. I remove intersecting parts making penetrations into my part. I then explode my part to move the face surface so I can modify it. I then explode the face into lines so I can edit the part and place nice radius onto internal sections and generaly tidy up the part before I proceed to manufacture. I then try to region my lines back into one shape and come up with this error "1 closed, degenerate or unsupported object rejected."

I view each line in properties and can confirm they are all on 0 Z axis. I check all lines are "joinable" but it still will not region my part.

Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.

Attach a copy of the drawing to your next post and someone here will take a look at it.

Question: You couldn't come up with a way to solids edit the part that did not require exploding it?

I agree with ReMark, it's going to be difficult to diagnose remotely without seeing the drawing/model, but I'm certain we can help you edit the 3D solid without exploding it.

Hi all,

My task is to draw in 3d and then take off parts and lay them out so I can cut them on a cnc router. To be able to cut them I require each item to be a closed loop or a region and on a 2d plane. So from 3d I need to extract the face I wish to cut as a flat plane. So far I have been able to work with specific angles and can rotate to lay out onto the 0,0 axis. This job I have been working on has really challenged me. I have produced items on two different angles and some parts have twists in them. I have used the added bolt on "unfoldsurf" with some success. I have removed most of the drawing to enable file size to upload. You can see in my drawing that I am trying to make slots to assist construction. I produce the part and then remove the intersecting parts creating the slot. Ie. to use "solid, subtract" on the red part removing the blue parts. Once I have this I need to explode the item to isolate the face and convert to surface. I use the "unfoldsurf" and it lays my part down on the 0,0 axis and rolls out any twists or bends that it has to is enabling my to make my cnc file to cut the part on the cnc router from flat stock.

You can see the part No:24 how I put a nice round onto the sharp edges and try to produce a nice looking part as well as functional.

When I have finished modifying my part I use "region" to reproduce a complete item again. I then use the "solid, subtract" to remove the centre sections so I can move and place it onto the sheet I plan to cut from.

When I "region" this is when I get my error message. I spend hours trying to find the problem but keep coming up short for answers. I double check that all parts are on the Z,0 and are joinable to each other but still cannot manage the complete item. Sometimes I even go back to the part on the angle and change my X,Y co-ordinates and change the part and try to re-region after nothing has been moved and it still will not region.

http://www.cadtutor.net/forum/images/attach/dwg.gif

I saved in 2010 format. I hope it works.

Sorry for the essay but hope it makes sense.

Regards

Testbed27

Rib0.dwg

I'd like to say I understood all that ^ ^ ^ but unfortunately that is not the case. I exploded one of the sections and noticed a couple of anomalies in the geometry but I can't say if that has any bearing on the fact that you cannot create a region. Maybe nestly can provide you with the help you need as I don't think I can. Sorry. Just the same I'll keep looking. Should anything come to mind I will post again.

I've looked at three different parts and found thirteen anomalies in your geometry that I cannot explain. Can you tell us how you created the 3D parts? Did you use the Extrude or Loft command? After the parts were created then did you go back in and make additional changes to the parts using any of the solids editing commands? Ex. - Move Face.

I've now looked at an additional four parts and found five anomalies.

Hi ReMark,

Could you elaborate on the anomalies you found in the drawing?

Prior to this dilemma I had trouble pushing my shapes down onto the 0,0 plane so I could extract the lines for cutting with. I had read in other forums to use the "flatten" function but I have not had any success with this as it appears to only flatten out my lines from curves and not push them onto the 0,0 plane. You can imagine my delight when I found the "unfoldsurf" bolt on.

I have had this region issue for some time. Once I have exploded my surface I have not been able to use some features on the lines either. Like using fillet to join two lines with a neat radius. The fillet will not work until I had redrawn them. This has cost me many hours and to redraw for many parts. Not sure if this is an AutoCAD problem or just ME!!

Regards

Testbed27

Where did you find this "unfoldsurf" bolt on? Is this a custom lisp program?

Note: vertical plates were separated for purposes of clarity.

These two vertical plates don't match up. I'm guessing that is intentional. However, it appears that at least one of the plates (green) is canted to the right. Is that also intentional?

Each one of the red circles, with arrow, represents an area where it appears the geometry is not quite right. This part had the most problems.

Bad news. Same part shown above. When I looked at it from a different angle I found five more areas that seem suspicious and I haven't finished looking. How long have you been working in 3D? If your 3D model is problematic then that will also carry over into your 2D representations. The model is the basis of all information.

The count is now up to nine additional areas of concern. Make that twelve.

Here is a closeup of a section of the same 3D part that does not look right. I've circled two areas in yellow. Can you explain what is going on here? Was this an intentional part of the design?

I readily admit to the fact that some of the "anomalies" may not be anomalies at all but an intentional part of your design. If that is the case by all means please correct me as this is not the type of work I do. Thanks.

A different part. I'm having trouble understanding the purpose of the triangular geometry. Could this have been a result of a misdirected slice?

Before I attempt a solution, can you clarify whether your manufacturing process cuts the "slots" perpendicular to the plate, or are the slots angled through the plate at the same angle as the part that will fit into the "slot"? Also, what are your tolerances/clearances? or are you only cutting "slots" that are exactly the same dimension as the object that fits into the slot.

It almost appears that some of the geometry is angled. Whether or not that is intentional we'll have to wait and see.

Hi ReMark,

The "Unfoldsurf" was from a company called "Solid3DTech" and I paid $430 Australian at the time. It was in USA currency and I cannot recall exactly how much is was in us dollar. The support from Solid3DTech has been really good but they have not been able to fully get my troubles either.

The design...where to start.

You have noted that the two vertical support panels do not lineup.. This is correct as these form internal support for the external cladding panels. These cladding panels are on different X axis and different Z axis. The angle was determined by a third party supplied model drawn from a different software package and it only exported many lines but with no definition so I chose to redraw and produce in 3d so I could design parts to manufacture item. The parts are from 12mm and 6mm MDF board and I will cut them to shape using a CNC router. The router only cuts on a 90degree angle so when I have a 12mm part slot into another part on an angle I need to increase the width of the slot to allow for the 12mm thickness on angle. i.e. if I have 12mm dissecting at a 5 degree angle the slot will need to be 14.8188mm wide. I firstly drew the part above by setting my UCS and drawing on the flat plane. I then extruded the item and carried on drawing after changing my UCS back to the WCS. Later I decided that it would be good to create assembly slots to assist construction as the only simple parts are the base and the vertical supports, everything else are on angles. The two vertical supports are slightly different as when other parts are placed into the check outs the base of the part touches on the lowest side of the support panel. After I went back and replaced my UCS so I could edit my part this was when I tried to explode and re-region as I wanted to add blocks to my part. I succeeded only by drawing separate blocks and using the "solid, union" to get to add the blocks. That's why they are of odd shape and not parallel to the vertical edges of the vertical support ribs. Once I obtained the extra blocks I used the "solid, subtract" to cut the slot, however the slot is on an angle. To overcome the angle slot I reset my UCS to the side plane and drew a "box" using the snap points from the last subtraction to enable the slot to be made wider to allow the 12mm on the angle as explained above. Clearly I have missed the correct points as outlined in your yellow circles.

Once I have completed my design I take my part and exploded to gain access to the face region. I then convert to surface and then unfold using the bolt on program. It throws the surface as lines onto the 0X, 0Y,. I then re-region the part and remove the center sections so I have a completed part and position it accordingly onto a panel I plan to cut from etc.....

My background:

I am a cabinetmaker for the last 28 years and hurt my back 2 years ago. I was given the opportunity to move into the CAD and CNC router area and have really enjoyed it as I no longer lift things and this is good for my back. I took night classes and completed two courses over a 16 week time frame to learn the basics of AutoCAD. From there I have learnt along the way. Although I seem to have a good handle of some areas I know I lack big time in other areas and hope to learn from the many CAD users so I can increase my proficiency. This job has offered some major hurdles for me to overcome but in all am happy with the net result. I just need to be able to extract these parts and cut soon as I have been working on this job for many weeks now and am tired of it.

I thank you for your efforts and really appreciate your advice so far. Not understanding how parts interact with each other can really make a huge difference in when trying to work out and issue.

Regards

Testbed27

Thanks for the explanation, that pretty much answers all the questions I had. For any panel that's flat, you don't need to use the 3rd party add-on, FLATSHOT command should yield perfect results as long as you orient your view perpendicular to the panel first. I have some ideas how to make cutting the slots easier too now that I know for sure how you're using the slots. What's the diameter of the router bit that will cut the slots (ie what's minimum radius for inside corners)

Im using an 8mm diameter cutter leaving a 4mmradius in the corners. I have on easier projects added a small round into the corner so when a square object fits into hole it does not foul. however as this project has been giving me issues I have decided to handball the task to others and have them chisel out the corners square.

I have only tried the "flatshot" command in a smaple mode and it was on a panel that had twists etc and gave up on it. I shall go back and play with this command to really investigate it thoroughly.

Thanks

Thanks for the info. My idea is to SUBTRACT (actually INTERFERE then SUBTRACT) to create the beginning of the slot, then use PRESSPULL to "Push" the slot the rest of the way through the side panel. After than, reorient the UCS with the face of the side panel and draw a BOX, using the widest points of the slot as opposite corners of the BOX, then subtracting the BOX should make the slot large enough to accept the rib at an angle.

I ran into a snag however because there are different angles on the "tab" of the Rib. Can you clarify whether they are supposed to be square with the rib, or square with the side panel. (Square with the side panel gives a better fit, but square with the Rib is easier, I think)

Hi Nestly,

Thank you for your input however at the risk of sounding ungrateful your technique is very close to the way I did it. However you have used the "interfere" before subtract and I can honestly say that I did not do that. I also have not used that function and need to learn what it does. I just had a little play with the file I posted to try and understand it and note I need to spend some time working that one out.

Your question in relation to the angled lines you highlighted. Must say very impressed with your ability with producing a file with moving bits to show your point. I have not used the PRESSPULL button. That would have saved some time in the beginning. Never really noticed it as I have pressed buttons in the past and managed to get myself into all sorts of trouble so I refrain from pressing things that I do not understand. It is clear to me that I need to spend a lot more time experimenting to see what happens. The angle on the rib checkout would prefer to be 90 degree to the side panel resulting in a better fit but I thought I had done that at an earlier stage. There are two ribs in the drawing as I need to break the job up so I can manufacture that parts from standard material stock.

Having said all of this I still have the same issue about being able to take a part and re-region it after I have modified aspects of the shape. I have been suggested I use PEDIT. Again I need to fully understand what this function is going to do before I can use with confidence

I have a question in trying to use FLATSHOT. If I do not have my origin perfectly set to the face of the 3d part then would FLATSHOT give ne a slightly distorted image? For that I like the unfold function. The main use of “unfoldsurf” is when you have surfaces that bend around curves or corners and I need to calculate surface area to be able to manufacture the item. It can also calculate the shape of say a cone and roll it out flat so it can be machined. I am very impressed with this bolt on for being able to do that but I have found it works well when I have a face on an angle, it pushes the shape down onto 0,0 for me.

As you can see if everything I did was at a perfect 90degree I would not be troubling you guys as I have been able to explode and take the face at region level and lay it down onto my cutting board. I get into trouble when odd angles are generated and I am unable to straighten them out and lay them flat.

Regards

Testbe27

Regarding INTERFERE command: When using INTERFERE, you have the option to keep the interference objects. By keeping the Interference object(s), you can then SUBTRACT the interference from the part(s). I use this method because both original parts are retained.

I like the demo. Thanks for that piece of knowledge. I will be using this more often.