Learning to scale properly

I am new to AutoCad and am currently running AutoCad LT 2015.

The current and major issue I keep running into is learning how to scale my drawings to a readable format to print. I am creating drawings of petroleum tanks and gas station layouts at the moment. My current drawing, I have two 24' x 24' fuel islands and they are separated by 105' of space. The issue I am having is once I complete the drawing all of my annotation dimensions are incredibly tiny and unreadable. As well as the text I am using to label specific parts of the drawing. I somewhat know how to get around the text portion, by making the text very large. This isn't a great system as the drawing pieces are small and the text is huge. I'm sure I am just doing something wrong and don't completely understand the scaling. I am drawing in a 1:1 scale at the moment.

Can someone shed some more light on this for me? I am willing to provide whatever is needed to better explain my situation or provide more information.

Thank you in advance for your help on this issue, it means a lot.

ALWAYS draw 1:1 in modelspace. I assume you are drawing in imperial units. Are you using layouts and viewports? One option is to make your dimensions and text the actual height that you want them to appear in paperspace, say 1/8" or 3/16", and apply them there, directly over the viewport, onto and around the objects. The other option is to use annotative dimensions and text, with the scale of your viewport assigned to them.

The third and most tedious option is tedious because you will need a separate dimension style for every scale you use in a paperspace viewport. That option is to use non annotative modelspace dimensions and text, as you are apparently already attempting to do. It's OK to do so, but it is Old School.

Modelspace dimensions (non annotative) are done thusly; Their text height needs to be your desired paperspace text height multiplied by the scale factor.

For instance, if your viewport scale is 1/4" = 1'-0", your 1/8" tall text would have to be 48 times larger, because 1/4" goes into 1'-0" 48 times. Then they will plot at 1/8" high. For 1"= 1'-0" the scale factor is 12, and so on. You have to multiply the desired dimension height by the scale factor because for instance, the 1/4" = 1'-0" scale for your viewport shrinks your modelspace objects 48 times smaller than 1:1. The sizes and lengths of your dimension style parts also need to be LARGER by the same factor, of course. If you want arrows 1/8" long at 1/4" = 1'-0", they have to be 6" long in the dimension style editor.

Also, unless there are pertinent objects within that 105 feet of space, there is no need to show all of it. You can simply draw your objects closer together and put a jogged dimension from one to the other noting the true distance. A text override on a jogged dimension is OK, its not like cheating by overriding inaccurate dimensions on objects that are badly drawn, or to avoid making complete modifications and changes accurately.

There is no need to place any dimensions or text in model space. Both can be placed in your paper space layout.

If you really want to keep text and dimensions in model space then learn to use the annotative scaling feature of AutoCAD.

Remember that you are using CAD to create a drawing as opposed to doing it manually on a drafting board. So, you do not draw "to scale". Everything you draw in model space should be FULL size whether it is a paperclip or the site plan for a Citgo gas station. FULL size.

BTW...what size paper will you be using to print the drawing on?

So here is a very simple example using the dimensions you previously stated in your first post.

The islands are drawn in model space at full size.

The paper size I elected to use for this example is 11x17.

The drawing consists of the following layers: 0, Islands, Border, Dims, and VPorts. Note that the layer VPorts (my shorthand for ViewPorts) is set not to print. It will display onscreen but will not print out.

The dimensions were placed in the layout not in model space.

The viewport scale is set at 1"=20' meaning 1 paper unit = 240 drawing units. If I had gone with an 18x24 paper size I could have set the scale at 1"=10'.

drawing was saved in 2010 file format so you should have no trouble opening it.

GasStaLayout.dwg

Thank you SO MUCH for your quick response. I really appreciate your expertise and willingness to help with this issue. I'm sorry I am new but I am very eager to learn, I have been working in the IT Networking field for 9 years.

Dana W - I am 99% sure I am drawing in imperial units. I do use layouts to view my printable page and have created a rectangle viewport to try and adjust my scale to make everything look better (with not much luck). I do understand what you are saying, but I am not exactly sure how to apply all those changes. I am going to take your comment and look up which functions to use to get that accomplished, thank you.

ReMark - If I am understanding correctly, I should use my dimension annotations only in paper layout space? If I have two fuel islands that are 105' (or units) apart I don't actually have to measure out 105 units and place them that far apart? I could simply just put some space in between them and make a note of the actual distance in the paper space layout? I am currently using standard letter paper 8.5 x 11, but I do have the ability to print in any size. I will attempt to start using layers as you instructed in your example.

Would it be easier and more beneficial for me to post my current drawing? I would be happy to do so.

Thank you again for taking the time to help me.

If I have two fuel islands that are 105' (or units) apart I don't actually have to measure out 105 units and place them that far apart? I could simply just put some space in between them and make a note of the actual distance in the paper space layout?

Generally, I would draw the islands at their actual location. Depending on how large the site is, and how much detail needs to be displayed, you'd then use multiple Layouts and/or multiple Viewports to create a complete set of drawings. For a plan view of two islands 105' feet apart on 8 1/2 x 11, a scale of 1/16" = 1'-0" is probably the most appropriate scaled as it will display about 150' the long way on the paper. The islands themselves could each be in their own viewport with scale of perhaps 1/4" = 1'-0" and those viewports could be adjacent to each other (opposed to 105' apart) to allow the display of more detail.

Yes, attach your drawing for more specific assistance.

I am sure I am doing numerous things wrong here, this is only my second drawing. I will upload it now, thanks guys.

Brad State 67.dwg

Any feedback about any part of the drawing, scale, layout, absolutely anything is greatly appreciated!!! I'm just a noob trying to learn!

You used Decimal units which translates to decimal inches. The example I gave you used Engineering units which translates to feet and decimal inches.

In your drawing the island on the left measures 48x48. The one on the right measures 48x70. There is a separation distance of 210. In my example the islands are 24 feet square separated by a distance of 105 feet.

Question: Is the island on the left supposed to be 4' square or 48' square?

If the drawing does not have to be printed to scale then you can do it any way you want. It would be the equivalent of hand sketching a layout on a cocktail napkin.

Some of your text and your 105' dimension in your layout is on the Defpoints layer. That is not good because anything on that layer will not print. The layer is created automatically by AutoCAD as soon as you put your first dimension on a drawing. If dimensions aren't used the layer is not created.

Your viewport should be on layer Viewport not on layer 0.

Your islands should be on layer Islands.

The label "Side Street" is currently on layer 0 along with almost all of your geometry (the "building" is on layer Defpoints - not good). I would recommend a separate layer for text.

Does the side street and the state road intersect?

What is the line that goes from the building over to the island on the left represent?

For a drawing as simple as this one placing your text and dimensions in paper space is the easiest thing to do. Once your drawings get more complex and you start using blocks with text and stuff then you will need to start using annotative scales for your text. I used to use 3 or 4 scales for one drawing but it gets confusing so I just use one scale for my blocks in model space and just place the rest of my text in paperspace.

You used Decimal units which translates to decimal inches. The example I gave you used Engineering units which translates to feet and decimal inches.

 

In your drawing the island on the left measures 48x48. The one on the right measures 48x70. There is a separation distance of 210. In my example the islands are 24 feet square separated by a distance of 105 feet.

 

If the drawing does not have to be printed to scale then you can do it any way you want. It would be the equivalent of hand sketching a layout on a cocktail napkin.

Are cocktail napkins still used?

ReMark - I apologize for the miscommunication on my part in my original post. One island is 24' x 24' which is the new island, the other is an existing and I do not have the specs on that one. I just kind of winged that side of it until I could speak with the guy who gave me the project.

I will start using Engineering units instead of Decimal. Thank you for your insight on this.

After seeing the layout, any advice on how to make it look better in the paper space? How would I go about scaling down how large the dimension annotate numbers are?

After seeing the layout, any advice on how to make it look better in the paper space? How would I go about scaling down how large the dimension annotate numbers are?

It looks like you used the default setting of 3/16" for your dimension text height. This can be changed in your dimension style on the Text tab. I'd recommend 3/32" (.0938) to 1/8" (.125) max.

ReMark - I apologize for the miscommunication on my part in my original post. One island is 24' x 24' which is the new island, the other is an existing and I do not have the specs on that one. I just kind of winged that side of it until I could speak with the guy who gave me the project.

Are you saying that you drew your objects then scaled them up?

Give me the rough numbers you were using for the other island, the width of the roads, and the building if you please.

My rough guess is that if you wanted to produce a drawing like this that was to scale when printed to fit on a 8.5x11 piece of paper you would probably be looking at a scale of 1"=40' or maybe 1"=50'.

I would suggest using engineering units for site plans and architectural units for building plans.

Going back to your edited post.

The island on the left should be 24' x 24' so 48' square. I think my issue was that I was tweaking with the scaling and I must have scaled it all up during that process that is why it is all off.

How do I find out what parts of the drawing are on what layer? How do I go about moving them to a different layer? Within the properties of the item?

I will create new layers for text and the streets, I hadn't ever tried using layers before but now I see they are essential.

I am trying to find the guy to tell me if they do intersect, for now I will leave them not intersected and change when I hear back from him. He has given me a real lack of information on some of this.

The line that goes from the building to the new island is underground power for the island and all dispensers. I need to label it power right under the building.

I will adjust the dimension style and see if I can learn how to make all that work, thats a great tip thank you!

The rough numbers I was using for the other island were 30' x 50' originally and as you said I think I messed up everything due to scaling. The roads I just drew lines and copied them with no real dimensions, any advice on what to make those? It is just a regular two lane highway so whatever would look best with what we have going on throughout the rest of the drawing. I did 35'x85' on the building as a rough guess to his cocktail napkin drawing he gave me (you were correct with the napkin joke )

Thanks again for your help!

If the island is 24' x 24' then it would be, by definition, 24' square.

You can find out what is on each layer in a couple of different ways. One would be via the Layer Properties Manager. Another would be via the Properties palette. A third way, though a bit more involved, would be by using the LIST command.

I would recommend putting any undergound utilities like sewer, water, electrical, gas, storm drains, fiber optic cable either on a single UTILITIES layer or each on their own layer depending on the complexity of the drawing and/or what the purpose of the drawing is supposed to be.

I know there are different types of scales, which scale would I want to change to 1" = 40'? Would that be the annotation scale?

Ah yes, 24' scale, don't mind my lack of knowledge in this whole drawing world lol.

Here is another example but this time I fit everything onto a 8.5x11. BTW...the dashed grey lines are the printing limits. Any object on or outside those lines will not print.

The scale of the above is 1"=40'. Anyone with an engineer's scale could drop it on the drawing, when printed, and scale off distances. I included a number of dimensions that normally might not show up in a drawing of this type just to give you some idea of what one can show on a piece of paper this size and still be printed to a recognizable scale.

The text and dimensions are on their own layers and assigned different colors.

I would recommend you go through the tutorials here at CADTutor as well as those at mycadsite.com that comes highly recommended.

I know there are different types of scales, which scale would I want to change to 1" = 40'? Would that be the annotation scale?

 

Ah yes, 24' scale, don't mind my lack of knowledge in this whole drawing world lol.

I have NOT used the annotation scaling feature. Why? Because all my dimensions and text have been placed in my layout and NOT in model space. Some people find this approach useful while others shun it completely. Neither one is wrong. I always state that the user test both methods and use the one that works best for their particular situation.

To get the scale(s) I needed I made use of the SCALELISTEDIT command and added the scales 1"=10', 1"=20' and 1"=40' to my list of available scales.