A question of possibility

Hello all! I've been working in autocad for about 5 years now, but am posting in the beginners' area because I've never had the slightest bit of formal training. Lately, the inefficiency of how things are done in my workplace CADwise has really started to drive me nuts, and I've taken it upon myself to figure out how to improve things.

 

I've been learning about dynamic blocks and attributes in order to make the process of placing symbols around the plan more efficient than going to a massive collection of constant objects and having to put them on like stamps on a page. I've learned loads, but there are some things I want to achieve that I can't seem to find any explanation of how. So either I'm blind, it's considered such basic knowledge no one even posts it anywhere, or it's just not possible. Hoping to find out here.

 

Referring to attached example.

 

Visibility states have helped me condense a lot of separate symbols down to one, and making it annotative lets me spin the text easily as needed depending on the facing of the object. Align makes snapping it to strangely angled walls easier too. Now what I'd love to figure out is how I can make the text stay at 0° automatically. Because frankly, I never want it to be otherwise. So if I snap it to a wall and the Align parameter changes the angle of the block, I want it so that the F remains perfectly upright within the square. Not at an angle. If I use the rotate command, again, it will remain upright automatically.

 

I've played with the rotate parameter and action and learned how you can use them in an action chain to rotate an object while keeping the text centered and upright, but that's only if you grab the rotate grip and spin. Which is obnoxious since I can't specify an angle that way (despite it saying you can... ). So I'd like to be able to use the rotate command. I'm more used to using that anyways.

FireAlarm.dwg

Use rotate command with the wanted items in your dynamic block with base point and without selecting the letter you be a starting point for you to experience.

Since you are using annotative blocks, you can also use an annotative text style. There is another parameter associated with annotative text. Just below the box in the text style editor, where you check off whether you want the text style to be annotative, there is another check box that is only available if you check off annotative First. This box is labeled "Match orientation to layout".

 

Try it.

 

Of course, this means you will probably have to create a new text style solely for use with your blocks, but that depends on what is up in other places where you might use it. I have only used it for the text style I use in annotative multi leaders, but it works a charm for them.

Thank you so much! That made things very easy. This is what happens when you get nothing but on-the-job as-you-need-it knowledge and no actual training.

 

Another sort of "possibility" question I had is if it is possible to create a sort of drop down set of selections in a block in the way that visibility does, that controls things like layers as well. Or even performs actions. For example, in the block I posted originally, say the text was on one layer and the geometry on another, both functionally with respect to being an "existing" fire alarm. Is it possible to create a drop down box that could list

 

New

Existing

Demo

 

and by clicking on one of them, both the layer the text is on and the layer the geometry are on would change to different layers appropriately?

 

The Lookup table parameter seems like it might be the key, but that thing looks incredibly intimidating. I'm truly just asking if it is possible. If so I will do my own leg work and figure it out. I'd just like to know my goal is reachable before wasting too much time. Any pointing in the right direction would obviously be greatly appreciated as well. Thanks again for the help!

Since you are using annotative blocks, you can also use an annotative text style. There is another parameter associated with annotative text. Just below the box in the text style editor, where you check off whether you want the text style to be annotative, there is another check box that is only available if you check off annotative First. This box is labeled "Match orientation to layout".

 

Try it.

 

Of course, this means you will probably have to create a new text style solely for use with your blocks, but that depends on what is up in other places where you might use it. I have only used it for the text style I use in annotative multi leaders, but it works a charm for them.

Well, I tested my premise, and once the annotative, and "Match orientation to layout" text style is inside a block, and the inserted block is rotated, either dynamicly or by command, the text does not keep its alignment at 0 deg with the view, in model or in a paperspace viewport, so it is pointless to go to the trouble of trying it. However, ROBP's method works like a charm. Simply leave the text object out of the "Select Objects" when adding the rotate action to the block like he says. since your whole block is annotative, the text probably does not have to be annotative in itself, either.

 

Text set up as annotative and "Match orientation to layout" does work very well with annotative multileaders, though.

Thank you so much! That made things very easy. This is what happens when you get nothing but on-the-job as-you-need-it knowledge and no actual training.

 

Another sort of "possibility" question I had is if it is possible to create a sort of drop down set of selections in a block in the way that visibility does, that controls things like layers as well. Or even performs actions. For example, in the block I posted originally, say the text was on one layer and the geometry on another, both functionally with respect to being an "existing" fire alarm. Is it possible to create a drop down box that could list

 

New

Existing

Demo

 

and by clicking on one of them, both the layer the text is on and the layer the geometry are on would change to different layers appropriately?

 

The Lookup table parameter seems like it might be the key, but that thing looks incredibly intimidating. I'm truly just asking if it is possible. If so I will do my own leg work and figure it out. I'd just like to know my goal is reachable before wasting too much time. Any pointing in the right direction would obviously be greatly appreciated as well. Thanks again for the help!

Wait, which way worked? I could not get my way to work, but ROBP's does.

Your solution worked well for me actually. It already had it's own text style only for use with the FA symbols, so editing the style to be annotative and Match text orientation to layout worked perfectly. I mean I'm already debugging so-to-speak by pulling it in to some files to make sure everything is working smoothly, but so far they are!

 

And ya I considered all of that with the blocks, the problem is you can only have a single visibility parameter. My goal is to keep things less cluttered by essentially having more than 1 drop down. I'm envisioning something like...

 

States

New

Existing

Demo

 

Types

Horn

Strobe

Ceiling-Horn

Ceiling-Strobe

 

Two different dropdowns. Because if everything had to be controlled with a single dropdown, I'd need an individual option for all four types in each state, for a total of 12 options. And that's just getting to be really ugly and obnoxious. And that's sticking to this example, which isn't even where I want to implement this. It's for even more complex ones that would result in 30+ options by that route.

 

I've seen that lookup tables can achieve a multiple dropdown effect like I'm talking about, but I did not see it altering anything layer wise. It just made geometry appear or disappear. But perhaps I could combine the ideas and just have that many different items in the block, some on different layers, and use the lookup tables to help segment the options.

 

Either way, thanks for the help! Here's that block by the way. Your method worked great!

FireAlarmNew.dwg

You know, I fixed it so fast it breezed by me I even did it. I see what you meant about it not seeming to work. Explode it once after inserting it. Then play with it as you normally might. It all works fine.

Your solution worked well for me actually. It already had it's own text style only for use with the FA symbols, so editing the style to be annotative and Match text orientation to layout worked perfectly. I mean I'm already debugging so-to-speak by pulling it in to some files to make sure everything is working smoothly, but so far they are!

 

And ya I considered all of that with the blocks, the problem is you can only have a single visibility parameter. My goal is to keep things less cluttered by essentially having more than 1 drop down. I'm envisioning something like...

 

States

New

Existing

Demo

 

Types

Horn

Strobe

Ceiling-Horn

Ceiling-Strobe

 

Two different dropdowns. Because if everything had to be controlled with a single dropdown, I'd need an individual option for all four types in each state, for a total of 12 options. And that's just getting to be really ugly and obnoxious. And that's sticking to this example, which isn't even where I want to implement this. It's for even more complex ones that would result in 30+ options by that route.

 

I've seen that lookup tables can achieve a multiple dropdown effect like I'm talking about, but I did not see it altering anything layer wise. It just made geometry appear or disappear. But perhaps I could combine the ideas and just have that many different items in the block, some on different layers, and use the lookup tables to help segment the options.

 

Either way, thanks for the help! Here's that block by the way. Your method worked great!

Yeah, that is the reason I deleted my post, only one visibility state. Now I have to go find out why my idea of the oriented text did not work for me, one with supposed experience and expensive training, and it did work for you. :thumbsup:Actually both will work fine if the text is NOT one of the objects selected for the rotate action. I included the text in the action when I built my test block. However, once you get to the point where you need to rotate your viewport UCS, or rotate the entire viewport, the oriented text works pretty cool, except when drawing geometry rotates up onto it. That is pretty much what it was designed for anyway.

You know, I fixed it so fast it breezed by me I even did it. I see what you meant about it not seeming to work. Explode it once after inserting it. Then play with it as you normally might. It all works fine.

Oh, OK. Then it doesn't work the way I said it might. Yeah, once it is not part of the block, it keeps it's alignment.

 

Use Rob's idea and you don't have to explode it.

Oh, OK. Then it doesn't work the way I said it might. Yeah, once it is not part of the block, it keeps it's alignment.

 

Use Rob's idea and you don't have to explode it.

 

Maybe I am not understanding ROBP's method, but part of my problem with the rotate action is the very fact that it is an action. You have to grab the little grip and spin it. At least from my attempts at working it anyways. Which worked poorly for me because for one, I couldn't specify an angle, (It prompted me to enter one, but when I did, it ignored it and just plopped it down wherever my mouse had it at... ) and also just because I'm really used to using the rotate command on objects.

 

Needing to explode it isn't a problem really as all of our jobs are based out of template files containing the majority of our blocks already. All I'll have to do is go place the new block in the templates, give them the explode treatment, and save things that way and it will be forever ready to roll.

Maybe I am not understanding ROBP's method, but part of my problem with the rotate action is the very fact that it is an action. You have to grab the little grip and spin it. At least from my attempts at working it anyways. Which worked poorly for me because for one, I couldn't specify an angle, (It prompted me to enter one, but when I did, it ignored it and just plopped it down wherever my mouse had it at... ) and also just because I'm really used to using the rotate command on objects.

 

Needing to explode it isn't a problem really as all of our jobs are based out of template files containing the majority of our blocks already. All I'll have to do is go place the new block in the templates, give them the explode treatment, and save things that way and it will be forever ready to roll.

OK, I guess I don't know how many levels of explode or nesting are in your block, I haven't looked at it yet.

 

As for rotate to a specific angle, are you hitting ENTER after giving it an angle, instead of clicking the mouse? You should be. Beyond that I am not sure what's up with that.

 

More about Rotate actions.

 

When setting up a rotate parameter in the block editor, you can give the rotate parameter, a specific incremental set of angles, and a maximum arc limit.

 

Before setting the basepoint for the rotation parameter, hit the down arrow, then select "Value Set". From the next list, select "Increment". Then it will ask you what the incremental value is. After that, it will let you set the basepoint and radius of the rotation. Then you just attach a Rotation Action to the parameter, and Bob's yer uncle.

OK, I looked at the block. One item to fix. Justify the text box to Middle Center. That way the text will rotate (actually not rotate) around its own insertion point instead of orbiting it when you do a rotate after the explode.

 

EDIT, never mind all that, your text is an attribute, which becomes undefined whe the block explodes.

Edited February 20, 2015 by Dana W

Here is your fire alarm block. Set up to be rotatable in all 4 visibilities. I added a 360 degree rotation to each state.

 

Since I did not select the text attribute as one of the objects included in the Rotate action selection set, it does not rotate, while the stuff around it spins all over the place.

 

You have to change the visibility state before rotating, otherwise it goes all weird. No need to explode it.

 

The round grip is Rotate.

Rotating FireAlarmNew.dwg

As an option for your question about drop down lists, take a look at the attached example, it uses a lookup that is linked to a linear parameter, the linear parameter itself doesn't do anything and you can change it's properties so that it doesn't show up in the properties toolbar. The drop down works by using the reverse lookup feature, and reading this into an attribute, giving you the added bonus of being able to use 'attext' to get a list of your blocks and count up how many of each type you have in a drawing. You can have as many items in the list as you want, just make sure you don't have duplicates, and when your list is complete check that the "allow reverese lookups" is available, if not there is an error somewhere.

Multiple.dwg

Hi Dana,

 

Your block has been very helpful except for the fact that it isn't an annotative block therefore the scale has to be changed manually, correct me if I'm wrong! But when I change it to an annotative block I can't rotate the block using the rotate command and have the text stay upright. Any ideas? I feel like I'm going around in circles with this and it just isn't possible

 

Edit: now I've gotten to the point where I can make it annotative and when I use the rotate command the text stays upright but not in place

Edited March 19, 2015 by kzoppo

Edit: now I've gotten to the point where I can make it annotative and when I use the rotate command the text stays upright but not in place

 

That is because the text is not justified middle center and it is orbiting its justification/insert point instead of spinning around it as that point rotates with the block. If the text items are attributes, I am not really sure how to get at the justification edit, but I am almost positive it can be done.

That is because the text is not justified middle center and it is orbiting its justification/insert point instead of spinning around it as that point rotates with the block. If the text items are attributes, I am not really sure how to get at the justification edit, but I am almost positive it can be done.

 

Well you can justify it to middle center, which is what I have done and my basepoint is in the center as well but it still doesn't want to rotate properly with the command unless I have the attribute set as a constant but of course I want to be difficult and be able to change it.

Well you can justify it to middle center, which is what I have done and my basepoint is in the center as well but it still doesn't want to rotate properly with the command unless I have the attribute set as a constant but of course I want to be difficult and be able to change it.

Of course, you can adjust the justification inside the block editor, I don't know what I was thinking.

 

Hmmm. It is orbiting around some point that the text is related to, I am just not sure what to tell you right now, since I can't go test it out at the moment. Maybe someone will let us know in the meantime.

Going away from the block problem a moment there are numerous ways of selecting visually a block and inserting and having it auto roatte and malign properly.

 

1st step picking block if you look at tool paletes they have a little picture and can have sub lists etc, you can create your own toolbar and insert correct block, you can have a menu with your block names agian with cascading sub menus very very easy. Old fashoined is using a menu and slides to visually pick your block.

 

Lastly simple lisp to do all the aligning the code is hidden behind the menu or palette, so for me pick block pick line all done.