SEANT Posted March 15, 2016 Share Posted March 15, 2016 (edited) Now we're into my own specific problem. I've never had/used Illustrator. I'm not involved with CNC processing as much any more, else I probably would have invested in the package. I do have an old version of CorelDraw, however. And I did have direct access to a Pen/Knife plotter with CorelDraw support, which was better at reproducing curves compared to what it would accept from a DXF file. Perhaps there is some intermediate step, CAD/Vector file - PostScript - NC/G-Code, that the DXF files miss out on, thus forfeiting all of the Spline geometry. Or, based on this quote: My machine works fine with curves created in vector illustration software, such as CorelDraw or Adobe Illustrator. Sometimes when I import a dxf file into either program, it works fine and sometimes it doesn't. . . . . Nurbs Curves that only have features of Beziers - Splines with Degree + 1 Control Vertices (none of the higher Non-Uniform and/or Rational bits) can be processed correctly. Edited March 15, 2016 by SEANT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEANT Posted March 15, 2016 Share Posted March 15, 2016 Lee, does your school have a CNC machine? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLW210 Posted March 15, 2016 Share Posted March 15, 2016 I took 4 S shapes in AutoCAD>imported to Illustrator>exported as SSSS.dxf. The SSSS.dwg is what I created in AutoCAD as a comparison, I also made an .eps. The S.dxf was created in Illustrator and exported. SSSS.dxf SSSS.dwg SSSS.eps S.dxf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lrm Posted March 15, 2016 Share Posted March 15, 2016 SLW210, thank you for the file. The file contains a "new" spline but not an "old" spline. I've included an S in the attached file SSSSS.dwg (5 S's). I created it by converting a polyline to a spline. I estimated the location of the CVs needed then adjusted their location after giving the PEDIT S command. I used 9 CVs to get a close approximation to your original S. Please convert this file to Illustrator then export as a dxf file. Thank you, Lee SSSSS.dwg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEANT Posted March 15, 2016 Share Posted March 15, 2016 (edited) The SSSS.dxf and the S.dxf are interesting, and what I think are the crux of the problem. The "S" in the straight Illustrator to DXF export results in combined Beziers. It actually shows as a Non-Uniform type of Nurbs, but an explode reduces it to the individual Bezier sections. A typical AutoCAD Spline to Illustrator import to DXF export results in segmented poly (as demonstrated by the first "S" in SSSS.dwg/SSSS.dxf). What would happen if the attached file is brought into Illustator? Does the Modified "S" (Red) still get reduced to a faceted Poly? Edit: Looking at this now on my phone I see that the attachment didn't get included. I'll have to do that when I get back to the desk. Edited March 15, 2016 by SEANT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lrm Posted March 15, 2016 Share Posted March 15, 2016 The SSSS.dxf and the S.dxf are interesting, and what I think are the crux of the problem. The "S" in the straight Illustrator to DXF export results in combined Beziers. It actually shows as a Non-Uniform type of Nurbs, but an explode reduces it to the individual Bezier sections. I agree. The original spline with many CVs (almost 50) is broken up with EXPLODE into a series of splines with 4 CVs each which could be cubic Bezier splines. Explode cannot be used on the resulting spline but PEDIT will convert it into a polyline with hundreds of vertices. Here's what the translation of the AutoCAD file to Illustrator to DXF does with the four S's of the original file: A "new" Spline (NURBS) becomes a polyline Two arcs become 2 "new" splines A 2d polyline is still a 2d polyline It is interesting to note that arcs are converted to splines in this process and splines become polylines. The conversion from AutoCAD to Illustrator to DXF and back to AutoCAD has made the arc a more complex object. I would expect arcs to keep their identity or at the least simplified to a segmented polyline. I would think the conversion from arc to NURBS would make it more difficult for some post processors to handle. What is the DXF format of a spline that has been created directly in Illustrator? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quik&Easy Posted March 15, 2016 Share Posted March 15, 2016 I took your DWG and ran the 4 "S's" through the posting process for our machine. Interestingly, even the 1st S (I assigned them numbers from left to right) posted properly, even being splines. I haven't run them through the controller yet but the code seems correct. I'll post the actual G code for the 4 attempts. The last one, the outline polyline, I erased the right side of the form to give it a no-kerf cut to match the others. 1st S (from left to right): G90 G0X12.8518Y-2.0555 (Set 1 torches at 0.0000 inches) M00 (Program Stop) M58 M70 G3X11.6853Y-1.2292I-15.2951J-20.3539 G3X10.4454Y-0.5476I-4.5769J-6.8570 G3X7.8858Y-0.0023I-2.6944J-6.3682 G3X5.2478Y-0.4091I-0.1871J-7.5431 G3X0.6096Y-4.6842I2.7091J-7.5928 G3X0.0014Y-7.6744I6.3663J-2.8520 G3X1.1029Y-11.5008I8.2011J0.2891 G3X2.3009Y-13.1100I7.0861J4.0250 G3X3.8282Y-14.3026I4.7913J4.5616 G3X5.5260Y-14.9738I3.6329J6.7062 G3X6.8834Y-15.2845I4.7934J17.8211 G2X8.9393Y-15.7040I-8.3032J-45.9475 G2X10.8742Y-16.3968I-1.8694J-8.2683 G2X12.3813Y-17.4890I-3.1332J-5.9093 G2X14.9067Y-22.6163I-5.9944J-6.1381 G2X13.1847Y-28.5227I-7.9488J-0.8867 G2X10.3310Y-30.7523I-6.4593J5.3261 G2X6.7983Y-31.6083I-3.7260J7.6602 G2X2.7225Y-30.5161I-0.1795J7.4820 G2X1.4181Y-29.4905I4.7046J7.3254 G2X0.2355Y-28.2918I18.7906J19.7209 M71 2nd: G90 G0X12.8504Y-2.0348 (Set 1 torches at 0.0000 inches) M00 (Program Stop) M58 M70 G3X7.2225Y-15.2951I-5.1968J-5.6188 G2X0.2341Y-28.2710I-0.4255J-8.1407 M71 3rd: G90 G0X13.1175Y-2.1946 (Set 1 torches at 0.0000 inches) M00 (Program Stop) M58 M70 G3X6.7488Y-15.3867I-5.3932J-5.5297 G2X0.5012Y-28.4308I0.5408J-8.2773 M71 4th (left half of the outline form) G90 G0X0.3010Y-25.4389 (Set 1 torches at 0.0000 inches) M00 (Program Stop) M58 M70 G1X0.7075Y-25.6712 G1X1.1774Y-25.9775 G1X1.7371Y-26.2995 G1X2.2176Y-26.5424 G1X2.7350Y-26.7906 G1X3.3053Y-27.0282 G1X3.9336Y-27.2552 G1X4.4352Y-27.4136 G1X4.9896Y-27.5667 G1X5.5862Y-27.6829 G1X6.2145Y-27.7674 G1X6.8851Y-27.8149 G1X7.4342Y-27.8254 G1X8.0995Y-27.7990 G1X8.7384Y-27.7304 G1X9.3508Y-27.6142 G1X9.9369Y-27.4506 G1X9.9950Y-27.4347 G1X10.6127Y-27.2077 G1X11.1830Y-26.9279 G1X11.7057Y-26.5952 G1X12.0067Y-26.3576 G1X12.4607Y-25.9299 G1X12.8514Y-25.4389 G1X13.1841Y-24.9003 G1X13.3319Y-24.5994 G1X13.5431Y-24.0397 G1X13.6857Y-23.4378 G1X13.7702Y-22.7936 G1X13.7913Y-22.2392 G1X13.7490Y-21.5634 G1X13.6329Y-20.9351 G1X13.4375Y-20.3596 G1X13.1946Y-19.8844 G1X12.8462Y-19.3669 G1X12.4449Y-18.8865 G1X11.9908Y-18.4377 G1X11.6423Y-18.1473 G1X11.1460Y-17.7935 G1X10.6180Y-17.4556 G1X10.0583Y-17.1282 G1X9.4723Y-16.8220 G1X9.4247Y-16.7956 G1X8.8545Y-16.5210 G1X8.2843Y-16.2465 G1X7.7088Y-15.9666 G1X7.1280Y-15.6868 G1X6.9062Y-15.5812 G1X6.3254Y-15.3119 G1X5.7552Y-15.0268 G1X5.1902Y-14.7311 G1X4.6305Y-14.4302 G1X4.3665Y-14.2770 G1X3.8121Y-13.9391 G1X3.2894Y-13.5748 G1X2.7931Y-13.1788 G1X2.3285Y-12.7617 G1X2.1701Y-12.6086 G1X1.7371Y-12.1545 G1X1.3464Y-11.6635 G1X0.9926Y-11.1407 G1X0.6864Y-10.5758 G1X0.5966Y-10.3857 G1X0.3802Y-9.8471 G1X0.2112Y-9.2716 G1X0.0898Y-8.6539 G1X0.0211Y-7.9939 G1X0.0000Y-7.3444 G1X0.0264Y-6.6739 G1X0.1003Y-6.0297 G1X0.2218Y-5.4120 G1X0.3907Y-4.8259 G1X0.6125Y-4.2609 M71 G0X0.6178Y-4.2557 M70 G1X0.9082Y-3.6854 G1X1.2461Y-3.1574 G1X1.6368Y-2.6611 G1X2.0697Y-2.2017 G1X2.3549Y-1.9430 G1X2.8353Y-1.5787 G1X3.3581Y-1.2461 G1X3.9125Y-0.9504 G1X4.5091Y-0.6970 G1X5.0529Y-0.5016 G1X5.6337Y-0.3379 G1X6.2304Y-0.2006 G1X6.8534Y-0.1056 G1X7.4923Y-0.0370 G1X8.1576Y-0.0053 G1X8.4849Y0.0000 G1X9.1132Y-0.0211 G1X9.7468Y-0.0792 G1X10.3804Y-0.1848 G1X11.0193Y-0.3168 G1X11.6371Y-0.4699 G1X12.2126Y-0.6389 G1X12.8356Y-0.8765 G1X13.4164Y-1.1246 G1X13.7438Y-1.2830 G1X14.3826Y-1.6632 G1X14.6361Y-1.8533 M71 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEANT Posted March 15, 2016 Share Posted March 15, 2016 I took your DWG and ran the 4 "S's" through the posting process for our machine. Interestingly, even the 1st S (I assigned them numbers from left to right) posted properly, even being splines. I haven't run them through the controller yet but the code seems correct. I'll post the actual G code for the 4 attempts. The last one, the outline polyline, I erased the right side of the form to give it a no-kerf cut to match the others. 1st S (from left to right): G90 G0X12.8518Y-2.0555 (Set 1 torches at 0.0000 inches) M00 (Program Stop) M58 M70 G3X11.6853Y-1.2292I-15.2951J-20.3539 G3X10.4454Y-0.5476I-4.5769J-6.8570 G3X7.8858Y-0.0023I-2.6944J-6.3682 G3X5.2478Y-0.4091I-0.1871J-7.5431 G3X0.6096Y-4.6842I2.7091J-7.5928 G3X0.0014Y-7.6744I6.3663J-2.8520 G3X1.1029Y-11.5008I8.2011J0.2891 G3X2.3009Y-13.1100I7.0861J4.0250 G3X3.8282Y-14.3026I4.7913J4.5616 G3X5.5260Y-14.9738I3.6329J6.7062 G3X6.8834Y-15.2845I4.7934J17.8211 G2X8.9393Y-15.7040I-8.3032J-45.9475 G2X10.8742Y-16.3968I-1.8694J-8.2683 G2X12.3813Y-17.4890I-3.1332J-5.9093 G2X14.9067Y-22.6163I-5.9944J-6.1381 G2X13.1847Y-28.5227I-7.9488J-0.8867 G2X10.3310Y-30.7523I-6.4593J5.3261 G2X6.7983Y-31.6083I-3.7260J7.6602 G2X2.7225Y-30.5161I-0.1795J7.4820 G2X1.4181Y-29.4905I4.7046J7.3254 G2X0.2355Y-28.2918I18.7906J19.7209 M71 . . . . So, based on post processing the DWG file, your Pipeline created Multiple arc from the input spline. Not a bad compromise. It sounds like a CAD jockey could send native AutoCAD splines, and your pipeline would create a reasonable facsimile. I suppose, though, the customer may feel more comfortable generating their own Arc recreation - to be sure they new what they were dealing with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEANT Posted March 15, 2016 Share Posted March 15, 2016 . . . . What is the DXF format of a spline that has been created directly in Illustrator? The resultant DXF file shows the same as if there were several Degree 3 Beziers (Splines with 4 CPs) joined together via AutoCAD's JOIN command. Arcs changing to splines in the AutoCAD - Illustrator - DXF conversion is not a surprise. CorelDraw and, from what I hear, Illustrator do not have a pure Circle entity. They just combine 4 arc-like Beziers together. Those software packages do not support Rational splines either, so the circular elements are not 100% accurate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEANT Posted March 15, 2016 Share Posted March 15, 2016 I'd be interested to know how Illustrator and/or a Post Processor would deal with the red "S" in the attached DXF (The file I was supposed to include with my post earlier this morning). Ss_Mods.dxf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quik&Easy Posted March 15, 2016 Share Posted March 15, 2016 Red S posted through like the others: G90 G0X12.8518Y-2.0555 (Set 1 torches at 0.0000 inches) M00 (Program Stop) M58 M70 G3X11.6853Y-1.2292I-15.2952J-20.3539 G3X10.4454Y-0.5476I-4.5769J-6.8570 G3X7.8858Y-0.0023I-2.6944J-6.3682 G3X5.2478Y-0.4091I-0.1871J-7.5431 G3X0.6096Y-4.6842I2.7091J-7.5928 G3X0.0014Y-7.6744I6.3663J-2.8520 G3X1.1029Y-11.5008I8.2011J0.2891 G3X2.3009Y-13.1100I7.0861J4.0250 G3X3.8282Y-14.3026I4.7913J4.5616 G3X5.5260Y-14.9738I3.6329J6.7062 G3X6.8834Y-15.2845I4.7934J17.8211 G2X8.9393Y-15.7040I-8.3032J-45.9475 G2X10.8742Y-16.3968I-1.8694J-8.2683 G2X12.3813Y-17.4890I-3.1332J-5.9093 G2X14.9067Y-22.6163I-5.9944J-6.1381 G2X13.1847Y-28.5227I-7.9488J-0.8867 G2X10.3310Y-30.7523I-6.4593J5.3261 G2X6.7983Y-31.6083I-3.7260J7.6602 G2X2.7225Y-30.5161I-0.1795J7.4820 G2X1.4181Y-29.4905I4.7046J7.3254 G2X0.2355Y-28.2918I18.7907J19.7209 M71 I was expecting trouble with the splines but again had none. I find this interesting in itself as up until this version of the host software, I have been unable to work with splines at all. It still remains to be seen if the controller interprets things correctly; no reason it shouldn't as the code looks viable. Edit to add: look comparable to the original, comparing G code Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEANT Posted March 15, 2016 Share Posted March 15, 2016 So it does appear that your pipeline will convert splines to arcs automatically. That may be the best we can expect. And given that the above G-Code is similar to what you posted previously, there's not much sense in subdividing the original spline to the piecemeal Bezier replica. Looking at the G-Code, though, the arcs (at least the first couple) do not appear to meet their neighbors tangentially. Maybe not a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLW210 Posted March 16, 2016 Share Posted March 16, 2016 That's interesting. We are getting a water jet here in the coming weeks, hopefully I will get a chance to discuss curves with them. I wasn't expecting this. Ss_Mods New.dxf SSSSS.dxf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEANT Posted March 16, 2016 Share Posted March 16, 2016 Yikes! That's some bizarre stuff. The "S" curve via Bezier sub-section seemed to hold up well. Water jet. Damn. Wouldn't I love to have access to one of those. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEANT Posted March 16, 2016 Share Posted March 16, 2016 Did they show up on the re-import into Illustrator that way - or is that an artifact on the re-export to DXF? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLW210 Posted March 17, 2016 Share Posted March 17, 2016 As soon as I dropped them in Illustrator. I had hoped the export back would help, but no. I have Illustrator CS2 which is older, so I have to save them down to 2000. I'll see how Inkscape does later, time permitting. I'm out of town til Tuesday for a long weekend after today, if time allows, I will do some more on this today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLW210 Posted March 17, 2016 Share Posted March 17, 2016 Yikes! That's some bizarre stuff. The "S" curve via Bezier sub-section seemed to hold up well. Water jet. Damn. Wouldn't I love to have access to one of those. I'm hopeful my interactions with the water jet will be minimal, so far the claims by the manufacturer are it works with lots of file types and has it's on stand alone CAD package, we will see. https://www.omax.com/omax-machine/80x-series https://www.omax.com/software https://www.omax.com/software/file-support Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLW210 Posted March 17, 2016 Share Posted March 17, 2016 For the OP if still around, I found plotting to PDF>Insert in Illustrator>Export DXF might be an option. Ss_Mods-PDF.dxf SSSSS-PDF.dxf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLW210 Posted March 17, 2016 Share Posted March 17, 2016 Here are the Inkscape results, I have a few more options with the latest Inkscape over the older Illustrator. In order.... Options on Insert Warning when inserting SSSSS.dxf DXF save options Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLW210 Posted March 17, 2016 Share Posted March 17, 2016 Here are some of the files from Inkscape. drawing Inkscape Robo-master Spline.dxf drawing Inkscape.dxf Ss_Mods InkS Robo-master spline.dxf Ss_Mods InkS.dxf Ss_Mods Original INKS.dxf SSSSS InkS Robo-master Spline.dxf SSSSS InkS.dxf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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