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  1. #21
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    RobDraw, it is obvious that you feel very passionate about the drafting standards you have adhered to for years and anything that deviates from it seem to you as not the acknowledged way to do it, and I am sure you are right.
    On the flip side when a complete newbie like me steps in and ask a question that an AutoCAD pro wouldn't, we all benefit from drawing on the personal experiences of vastly diverse and sometimes maverick CAD professionals that have applied their superior knowledge in resolving encountered drafting challenges.
    I wouldn't like to feel under pressure that if I pose a silly question or share personal uncommon CAD routine I may get condemned but rather acknowledged. I am grateful to Ski_Me for sharing with us a method he uses to accomplish his objectives in the his professional drafting world.

    I know I keep going back to the challenge I have encountered but here it is again. I am attaching (I think) a simple drawing with standard dimensions and annotative dimensions style. The standard dimensions have applied "Dim scale overall = 1000". The annotative appear way too small. Is there a way to match exactly the settings and appearance in paper space of the Standard, without separately altering the parameters of the annotative style by working out and applying the 1000x scale (e.g. "Arrow size 0.18 x 1000=180") and then use and apply universally this particular Annotative style.
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  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ski_Me View Post
    My situation is unique in that producing drawings is a big part of what I do but it's not the only thing I do.
    I do wish that all I had to do is design work...
    I used to love being the one that drove the bus on our drawing sets. Our projects were very consistent when it came to our drafting standards. Now, I do primarily design work. I truly miss being in charge of all the drawings.
    Drafting is a breeze.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by kashbg View Post
    when a complete newbie like me steps in and ask a question that an AutoCAD pro wouldn't, we all benefit from drawing on the personal experiences of vastly diverse and sometimes maverick CAD professionals that have applied their superior knowledge in resolving encountered drafting challenges.
    I wouldn't like to feel under pressure that if I pose a silly question or share personal uncommon CAD routine I may get condemned but rather acknowledged.
    You totally misinterpreted what I was saying if you thought I was condemning you. I'm only here to educate. Some of my words may have been a bit colorful about the drafting side, but the message was clear. I did not criticize anyone's knowledge of AutoCAD.

    Let me share some personal information that might give my opinions on this subject some more merit.

    Day one on my first job. Lone drafter, absolutely no support. no computer experience except for my time in class. Constant connection to the internet was a luxury that was not afforded at the time. I had to deal with multiple scales on one sheet, sometimes more than four. They didn't teach me that in school. I didn't have access to forums, even if they existed back then. I figured out how to make the text in every one of my viewports exactly the same height. I had to figure this out on my own from the AutoCAD manual. Yeah, the huge softcover book. That meant, for each viewport, I needed a different text style and dimension style for every scale. Yeah, there were other ways, but that was the easiest for me, but still, no annotative scaling to ease the pain of all those styles. I got my first raise my 2nd week there, as a "noob" which wasn't even a term back then.

    Ski_Me, by his own admission, is in a unique position in the drafting world and his standards are flexible. Me, on the other hand, live in a collaborative environment where standards only help the quality of the drawings and consistency is key. It's not rocket science, it's drafting 101. In fact, some of the stuff I mentioned was covered on my first day of the drafting course I took, over 18 years ago.
    Drafting is a breeze.

  4. #24
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    Standards? We don't need no stinkin' standards!

    A lone wolf has the luxury to do whatever he/she wants. Those of us that work with more than one other individual who want all drawings produced in-house to look as though they were produced by the same company will have some sort of standards to follow otherwise chaos is the ultimate result. Yep...drafting 101. Could not agree more.
    "I have only come here seeking knowledge. Things they wouldn't teach me of in college." The Police

    Eat brains...gain more knowledge!

    I'm now a full member of the Society for the Promotion of Mediocrity in CAD. Standards? We don't need no stinkin' standards! Take whatever advice I offer and do the opposite.

  5. #25
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    Yep I'm on a island here and some I suspect would relish the thought of being in my position. But when I need to figure out how to set up a drawing or do some other weird thing with CAD my resources are limited sometimes. There are no real standards that I know of for fire alarm design, just some references that I looked at that didn't really help. But yeah when your the only one in the boat making up the rules is kinda fun.

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    Ok I looked at your drawing and I noticed that the paper space size for the text in your dimension was not defined to any size what so ever so I made it 2 and I did the same with your arrows. When you use annotative text and objects you need to be sure to define scale of your annotations and what size they need to be in paper space. Now what everybody here knows, and even I live by this, is to never place dimensions or text in model space if you don't have to. Too much text or other annotations in model space can lead to headaches and bad looking drawings. Model space is a real world representation of the geometry your trying to present and if you look around there are no words or dimensions hanging around giving you details about the stuff around you...well maybe some of us see them cough, cough Redraw. I would if I were you, reconsider trying to scale your dimensions and just place them in paper space it will be a lot easier for you.
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  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ski_Me View Post
    For the purpose of demonstration this difference in scale is a bit extreme but I wanted to show that if you select a different scale for your annotative objects than your viewport you can still see your annotative objects without having to add new scales. I maintain the same annotative scale for all my objects because all of my annotative objects are nested within blocks so I just use 1 scale for all my drawings. As you can see if you adjust the viewport scale to match the annotative scale to 1/64th then the text becomes to small to see but if the annotative scale is set to 1/8th and the viewport is set to 1/64th the text scales to 1/8th paper space instead of 1/64th. I didn't go to page set up to adjust the paper size but if you want play with that as well. For me this works really well, I don't have to mess with different annotation scales and it stream lines my work.
    You may have Autoscale turned on. The anno objects automatically match the viewport scale when it is on. If the current view scale is not assigned to an anno object, and AutoScale is not on, the anno objects will not even appear in the view.
    The S197 gen Ford Mustang, and the F-4 Phantom both prove the same theory. "With enough power applied, a school bus will fly."

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ski_Me View Post
    Ok I looked at your drawing and I noticed that the paper space size for the text in your dimension was not defined to any size what so ever so I made it 2 and I did the same with your arrows. When you use annotative text and objects you need to be sure to define scale of your annotations and what size they need to be in paper space.
    Ski_Me, I left the paper space text and arrows size to its original 0.18mm on purpose. I am trying to find out in case I ever want to create an Annotative Text or Dimensions that match exactly any given non-annotative text in paper space. As I said in my prior post, I could always change the parameters (text, arrow, etc) of the annotative style by applying the "Dim scale overall = 1000" of the non-annotative by multiplying 1000 x size (e.g. "Arrow size 0.18 x 1000=180") and then use and apply universally this particular Annotative style. The answer I am looking for is if there is an easier way to automatically copy paste or else the settings to create an annotative style exactly matching the given non-annotative text in paper space.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dana W View Post
    You may have Autoscale turned on. The anno objects automatically match the viewport scale when it is on. If the current view scale is not assigned to an anno object, and AutoScale is not on, the anno objects will not even appear in the view.
    Dana W, I was wondering exactly that. I tried to replicate Ski_Me method and I never got anything showing in paper space scaled to different scale to the annotative object, which is how it is supposed to be. Right?
    Unless Ski_Me is doing something with the Annotative Blocks that I missed to understand.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by kashbg View Post
    RobDraw, it is obvious that you feel very passionate about the drafting standards you have adhered to for years and anything that deviates from it seem to you as not the acknowledged way to do it, and I am sure you are right.
    On the flip side when a complete newbie like me steps in and ask a question that an AutoCAD pro wouldn't, we all benefit from drawing on the personal experiences of vastly diverse and sometimes maverick CAD professionals that have applied their superior knowledge in resolving encountered drafting challenges.
    I wouldn't like to feel under pressure that if I pose a silly question or share personal uncommon CAD routine I may get condemned but rather acknowledged. I am grateful to Ski_Me for sharing with us a method he uses to accomplish his objectives in the his professional drafting world.

    I know I keep going back to the challenge I have encountered but here it is again. I am attaching (I think) a simple drawing with standard dimensions and annotative dimensions style. The standard dimensions have applied "Dim scale overall = 1000". The annotative appear way too small. Is there a way to match exactly the settings and appearance in paper space of the Standard, without separately altering the parameters of the annotative style by working out and applying the 1000x scale (e.g. "Arrow size 0.18 x 1000=180") and then use and apply universally this particular Annotative style.
    You are still missing how annotative dimensions work. Annotative objects automatically assume the current view scale, If they are set up properly.

    STEP 1. Decide how big you want your dimensions to appear in paper space. Most people use either 3/32" or 1/8" text height, or the metric equivalent.

    STEP 2. Build a dimension style to that size.

    STEP 3. Click on the ANNOTATIVE option in the style editor. STOP THERE. Do not scale anything at all in the dimension style editor.

    STEP 4. Apply some dimensions to your model linework, in modelspace. You may not be able to see the text yet without zooming way in, unless you have assigned an annotative scale to your dimensions. Once again, after your dimensions have scales assigned to them, you can adjust the view scale of modelspace so you can see how your annotative text will look once they get to your viewport. The view scale adjustment in modelspace DOES NOT scale your modelwork. It only simulates how the annotative objects will look at the intended viewport scale. I mentioned how to do this too, in my original post.

    STEP 5. Use one of the methods I outlined in my original reply to assign annotative scales to the dimensions. HINT: The easiest way is to simply turn on Autoscale.

    STEP 6. Set up a layout with a viewport set to a scale of choice and be amazed.

    STEP 7. Skip steps 3, 4, 5, and 6, and apply your 1/8" annotation in PAPERSPACE where none of the things above matter one bit, except how you sized all the pieces of your dimension style.

    I can't wait to see the questions that come, once you have clicked on an annotative dimension already applied in modelspace. and have it display ALL of the annotative scales at once. That's just a treat for later.
    The S197 gen Ford Mustang, and the F-4 Phantom both prove the same theory. "With enough power applied, a school bus will fly."

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