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  1. #11
    Luminous Being RobDraw's Avatar
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    Going 3D is a no brainer. Build it and you can make a section, elevation, and 3D (isometric) views from anywhere you please. Future changes to the model will be reflected through out the various views. It takes longer to start but as the project progresses things go faster in 3D.
    Drafting is a breeze.

  2. #12
    Luminous Being tzframpton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by freebutterflyx View Post
    Currently we draw everything (both architectural and structural) in 2D, just "normal" autocad and sometimes with the help of some simple lisp.

    Recently we had some clients that were asking if we could deliver our files in Revit or Tekla format (or an open BIM format).
    Our management also saw drawings and 3D models from other companys.

    So they started to think about it. The management doesn't use these programmes, they only see the result and they have to deliver the result to the client.

    Because of the questions of the clients, the "looks" of other "3D models" and the fact that BIM is "modern" now, they started to think about it. Most of the management doens't know BIM, Revit, Tekla or whatever, they only see our results (2D drawings) and the results of others (similar companys).

    So, what we (the management actually) want ...
    shortly said : doiing like other do and building 3D models in stead of drawing in 2D. This for both the architectural side and the structural side:
    - architectural drawing: plans + details
    - structural drawing: overview + details (
    - structural details of steel contructions
    - reinforcement drawings

    BTW: the question for switching from 2D to 3D didn't come from "the working people" but it was the management that came with the idea first.
    I can tell you with confidence that Revit is really the only option to consider, beings that the entire AEC industry has moved to Revit, leaving the rest who haven't yet adopted Revit in a state of "when" not "if". You can certainly use Tekla, but this will produce 3D models in an non-native Revit format which really disrupts the process. What I'm getting at, is that Revit is the only platform in your industry that guarantees your company can participate with other partners and firms when designing, and your company will be able to deliver native authoring files for others to use. Tekla, from my experience with it, is robust for the structural team, but it's not native Revit format thus breaking the chain in the compatibility link. Projects for quite some time have been requiring Revit only, nothing else.

    BIM is commonly misinterpreted as "3D" and it's not... BIM is a process. If you use Tekla, you break the BIM process with those using Revit. Not entirely, but enough to make it not worth while. The reason I am going over these things is because non-Revit users do not understand that Revit is a collaborative project environment. AutoCAD users don't understand this, because the DWG file format is like any file... you open it up, nobody else can be in that file while you're in it. So, XREF'ing techniques are adopted. Revit isn't like this... any number of users can be in the same model at the same time over LAN or WAN networks. Tekla, as far as I know, doesn't do this, and it certainly can't join in on Revit's model in this way. This is why I say BIM is a process and not "3D". Imagine you and four other designers in the same model at the same time, modeling in your areas, or setting up sheets and documentation, cutting live sections for detailing, rendering 3D views, reviewing coordination alerts from the architect's model, all from inside the same office, or from outside clients and vendors who all have access from using Revit's BIM 360 cloud service.

    I know you have this idea that you'll "try out software" and "make a slow transition" but it's just not going to happen. The market will push one software, which is Revit, and it'll push you to use it immediately or you cannot be on the project. It is a common occurance these days with firms who haven't yet made the transition.



    And please take all that I've said as genuine real-world advice. I get where you're coming from and have heard these same comments before. I've never seen this stance actually happen in the manner that was intended.

    -TZ
    Tannar Z. Frampton ™ | Frampton & Associates, Inc.

  3. #13
    Super Member halam's Avatar
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    Tz, are you a Revit reseller..? You really sound like one.
    Modelling is done with two hands, 2d & 3d. Let it work together..
    https://twitter.com/halammerts

  4. #14
    Luminous Being tzframpton's Avatar
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    Lol, I do sound like it. Especially on this forum since it's primarily an AutoCAD forum. I know many are probably squirming while reading my response. People on Revit forums are way worse than me, though... they outright bash AutoCAD and AutoCAD users badly. I'm just trying to give the OP some honest advice is all.

    -TZ
    Tannar Z. Frampton ™ | Frampton & Associates, Inc.

  5. #15
    Super Member halam's Avatar
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    I use Revit and you know I do civil work. I know there are limitations on curved geometry (try getting some f* dimensions in a view) , working with GPS coordinates and working thought the detailling, rebar is very limited.


    But I can understand the benefits you gain from it for housing design and stuff. But on the civil side of AEC to state that it will be (the only?) future I strongly (very strongly) disagree with you. I can say it on this forum I suppose
    Modelling is done with two hands, 2d & 3d. Let it work together..
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  6. #16
    Luminous Being tzframpton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by halam View Post
    I use Revit and you know I do civil work. I know there are limitations on complex curved geometry, working with GPS coordinate and detailling, rebar. But I can understand the benefits you gain from it. On the civil side of AEC and Rev'it being the only future I strongly (very strongly) disagree with you. I can say it on this forum I suppose
    I strongly disagree with a Revit and Civil relationship too. When I say "AEC Industry", inherently I'm leaving out civil. Revit is intended for vertical work, not horizontal work, period.



    -TZ
    Tannar Z. Frampton ™ | Frampton & Associates, Inc.

  7. #17
    Super Member halam's Avatar
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    Still, I see a lot of effort being done to use Revit for other things than buildings. Interesting to know what AEC stands for really.. I mean what disciplines.. (speaking of Autodesk portfolio)
    Modelling is done with two hands, 2d & 3d. Let it work together..
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  8. #18
    Super Member halam's Avatar
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    TZ probably most Revit users never heared or seen AutoCAD architecture..
    https://www.youtube.com/embed/0Yh4eF8Uthg
    Modelling is done with two hands, 2d & 3d. Let it work together..
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  9. #19
    Luminous Being tzframpton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by halam View Post
    TZ probably most Revit users never heared or seen AutoCAD architecture..
    https://www.youtube.com/embed/0Yh4eF8Uthg
    Maybe the younger crowd, but not the long time users. AutoCAD Architecture "stole" from Revit after Autodesk acquired Revit back in 2002. Before ACA, it was ADT which went away quickly as it could not compete with Revit or ArchiCAD. Autodesk knew they had to do something so they bought the one for sale. It was a wise decision.

    ACA inherently has barriers since it's still DWG. Single-user file access, cumbersome, using Objects while still married to layers and plot styles, the Style Manager is extremely complex, etc. Comparing some of ACA's tools and functions on an individual basis, ACA can outdo Revit any day. But there's a forest for the trees. Taking a step back and comparing the two platforms comprehensively, there's no question which one is the better of the two.
    Tannar Z. Frampton ™ | Frampton & Associates, Inc.

  10. #20
    Super Member halam's Avatar
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    The way one can work with files is something to consider. My wifi was temporary out so my Revit says : failure / abort!
    Not able to save anything anymore, model crash, shuts down program leaving me with a big pile of **** unclear error messsages.
    So maybe TZ, you understand that i may find working offline with smaller models not a bad idea for working moral ..
    Last edited by halam; 24th Nov 2016 at 04:15 pm.
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