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  1. #11
    Super Member Murph_map's Avatar
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    From one Vet to another, Have you looked at any of the local colleges in the area? I used my TA before I retired for most of my degree at the local technical college. There is also a few CAD classes in the Engineering program at my local state university, no need to take the whole 4 yr degree to take them unless you want to.

    Air Assault!
    Murph

    Need a boat or camper for the weekend?

  2. #12
    Forum Deity David Bethel's Avatar
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    Welcome to CADTutor Rhino

    Guys, thanks for the compliments !

    I assumed that you are talking about the commercial
    food service industry when you mentioned stainless,
    not residential.

    In my experience, knowledge of the fabrication and
    back of house operations is more important than Autocad.
    This is especially true if you are working in a 2D only
    world. Learning basic AutoCAD is really pretty straight
    forward. There are plenty of us around that are self
    taught with the help of forums like this. I probably
    shouldn't admit it, but I've never taken a class in 25+
    years of working with AutoCAD.

    If you are with an established design house, they will
    probably have a KCL license. It is a repository for CAD
    symbols provided by various manufactures.

    If you are interested in doing 3D custom work, that's an
    entirely different animal.

    You mentioned shop drawings. I have customers that have
    tried using their manufacturing software ( Solid Works )
    to create drawing for approval. With limited success.
    That's probably 1 reason they are my customers. AutoCAD
    is still the most used because of it's flexibility. I
    have not seen many Revit based shop drawings.

    Our industry is in a bit of a flux right now. Revit was
    supposed to be the answer to all problems and the godsend
    for all time. It hasn't quite work out that way.

    The numbers I keep hearing the ring true is that 80% of
    all food service projects are still done in Autocad. That
    said, 80% of all very large projects ( 1m to 2m $) are being
    done in Revit. Especially if government money is involved.

    ( Rant on )
    Revit is a BIM application. I live in the only city in
    the US the makes nuclear powered aircraft carriers and 1
    of 2 that make nuclear submarines. BIMs system makes sense
    for these. A commercial kitchen isn't quite the same.

    Let's take a new elementary school in a small school district
    with limited funds.

    * A Revit project will cost the end user twice what an
    AutoCAD project will in design fees.

    * To fully use the information in the designs, the as built
    drawings must be accurate. Any substitutions made during
    the bid and supply process must be accounted for. Also
    the MEPs must be dead on.

    * The facilities department must have a Revit license ( not cheap )

    * They must also have a Revit operator ( not cheap )

    * The thing I find most over sold is that the information becomes
    outdated very quickly in our field. Manufactures change model
    numbers, suppliers and designs faster than I change shoes.
    It is pretty useless looking for a parts manual on line for a
    10 year old freezer that's been out of production for 5 year.
    Or the manufacture has been acquired by a competitor and their
    lines discontinued.

    ( Rant off )

    Good luck in you ventures and feel free to ask any questions
    that you may come upon.

    Regards -David

    My 1 big suggestion if you chose AutoCAD. LEARN THE COMMAND LINE !
    Last edited by David Bethel; 4th Mar 2017 at 01:35 pm.
    R12 (Dos) - A2K

  3. #13
    Luminous Being tzframpton's Avatar
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    David, my first CAD job was at a company named Classic Stainless. Their bread and butter was kitchen equipment. 75% of their work was kitchen. The rest was all types of fab stuff that varied... just specialty projects. So I'm familiar with the industry in a minimal way.

    I will say that the BIM world using Revit hasn't trickled down this far yet - down to industries such as commercial kitchens. I believe you without question if you say 80% of your industry is still using AutoCAD. But it will use Revit eventually. I have no doubt in my mind. What it'll take is the manufacturer's getting on board and releasing BIM related files instead of 2D cut sheets. Or, it'll take a few companies making the leap. It may take ten or more years, but it'll eventually happen. There will be no other option... eventually, anyways. GC's and building facilities management and other design firms will demand that it goes to the Revit platform... or use some type of good IFC option so it can be utilized in programs like Revit, Synchro/Navisworks, COBie compliant data exchanges and so forth.

    Creating content in Revit is not difficult at all. It would be quite easy actually. But what an overhaul it would be with some companies... yikes. Definitely an undertaking. I will say this: any kitchen company that can advertise native Revit Families for all their outputs will automatically get the job in certain projects. As in, no question - all other bids off the table, period.

    I helped Refrigeration Design Technologies (aka RDT) based out of Waxahachie, TX build their content to be available for kitchen consultants due to increasing demand. The owner of RDT and I are good friends. The demand is coming stronger and stronger from what he says. I'm not sure who it will fall under to create the content in the industry, but it will, eventually. Just as AutoCAD pushed out hand drafters eventually in the mid 80's and into the 90's. I see it as the same scenario.

    My $0.02 worth anyways.

    -TZ
    Tannar Z. Frampton ™ | Frampton & Associates, Inc.

  4. #14
    Forum Deity David Bethel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tzframpton View Post
    David, my first CAD job was at a company named Classic Stainless.
    Interesting thoughts Tanner. It could be a real shocker to look back at these types of discussions 10 years from now. It could be a new world. Or it could be quid pro quo.

    I am by no means proficient in REVIT. It is my understanding that it is not the same tool as Solid Works in the manufacturing process. Is it possible to have Revit output CNC info ?

    My $0.02 worth anyways.
    -TZ
    Knowledge gained from experience is always worth a lot moire than $0.02 -David
    R12 (Dos) - A2K

  5. #15
    Luminous Being tzframpton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Bethel View Post
    Interesting thoughts Tanner. It could be a real shocker to look back at these types of discussions 10 years from now. It could be a new world. Or it could be quid pro quo.

    I am by no means proficient in REVIT. It is my understanding that it is not the same tool as Solid Works in the manufacturing process. Is it possible to have Revit output CNC info ?
    Oooooh.... well first off Revit and Solidworks are not even close to being in the same category. Not at all. As for manufacturing and CNC, developers are just now starting to produce solutions for this. Revit is far behind in the automated manufacturing part of the industry. 3rd party AutoCAD tools and of course your Inventor/Solidworks have a strong grip in this area.

    I don't know how they'll develop Revit into a manufacturing program via 3rd parties, but it'll happen. It's already in the works now. Programs like SysQue for Revit MEP and StrucSoft for architectural framers already has a strong manufacturing process but most users still complain it's in the infancy stage and needs work while other users seem to be getting what they need from it.

    What's great for you is the examples you've shown of your parametric AutoCAD based equipment is almost exactly how Revit families work. You could literally recreate your items in Revit almost verbatim in terms of 3D models and functionality. It's quite impressive actually to see your work and how such an older version of AutoCAD can be programmed and automated to function exactly like the new wave of parametric design applications.

    -TZ
    Tannar Z. Frampton ™ | Frampton & Associates, Inc.

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