ReMark Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 How about we return to the original topic of this thread? Does anyone else have something of importance to say on the matter or not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Roy Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 If an engineer has a draftsman or people that do drafting for the company or for him...then No; leave it to the people that are paid to grind at it. They probably have more experience drafting than the engineer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qball Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 Note where the OP is from. It's a cultural difference. I don't think he said anything blatantly offensive. Let's ignore the human rights issues for now. Men still typically earn more than women, even in North America. But job-specific, that is hard to say. I'm sure that differs among companies. I have two Engineers in the office. One has just learned how to open Autocad and zoom and pan and measure. The other knows how to draw things and usually draws preliminary site plans, building plans and elevations for architectural things. I usually have to clean up the drawings once he is done. He does not know any customization of any kind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmerch Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 (edited) To jump in here, I think to answer the original question depends on the company on if they "need" to know CAD or not. If their role at the company is to attend the job meetings and come up with the overall sketch design, then there's no need to know ACAD. I know companies that have engineers and drafters for the previous example. I also know companies where they have both drafters and engineers and they both do full drafting. Here in the Midwest I know that the universities around here don't teach much CAD to people going for engineering degrees. That being said, they "should" know how to at least get into a file (whether read-only or design review) and get distances or stuff if they're not going to draft. That way they don't waste a drafters time. Edited August 25, 2011 by jmerch I veared off topic :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qball Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 need to know the general concept: no. should they know the general concept: yes. need to know how to actually use it: definitely not. (of course this could differ from company to company depending on the other job positions) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stryker1989 Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 In our department (instrumentation) we have 5 people (in our office, there are more all over the country). Chief Instrument Engineer - He is the overlord and the head of the department, he knows everything about everything to do with instrumentation, but zero about CAD. 3 Senior Instrument Engineers - These three guys are immediately above me and have been in the business for years and know a lot about their inistruments, but only one knows about drawing and is quite good. 1 Apprentice Instrument Designer - thats me, know a fair bit about instruments and a fair bit about AutoCAD, but as I still have time to serve as an apprentice I should learn some more. To answer the question a little more, I feel more than just 2 out of the 5 people in this department should be able to do design, the boss is constantly asking the electrical or piping department to throw together drawings for us but because they don't have a knowledge of instruments there are often error's in them, which isn't there fault as they aren't expected to know about the instruments and how they fit together. What this results in is the drawings having to be explained in every little detail, by which time the person who is explaining the drawing could have put it together himself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CyberAngel Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 He ... moved to S. Carolina where things made more sense. Have you ever been to South Carolina? We're a national punch line. We are at or near the bottom of almost every ranking for quality of life. Does that make sense? There are practically no unions here. Workers have zero rights, which for some insane reason is called "right to work." You can be fired at any moment for any reason or for no reason at all. I'm not saying your nephew was treated fairly. Union people can abuse their positions, the same way corporate people, government people, and any other people can abuse their positions. I am saying that I can show you what happens when the balance between labor and management tips too far the other way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DANIEL Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 unions are dtrimental to the modern buisness world .... Texas is a right to work state as weell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLW210 Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 If this continues I wil have to lock the thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack_O'neill Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 Offending posts from me deleted, I encourage any who responded to them to do the same. See ya. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qball Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 awww.... I missed all the good stuff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Organic Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 unions are dtrimental to the modern buisness world .... I would have to disagree there. Unions are great for workers to help get them better working conditions, pay and make sure they are getting a fair go and not being ripped off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperCAD Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 (edited) I would say that it's more important for the drafter to have a good grasp of the field that he or she is in so they know what they are drafting. Too many times I've seen plans from an architectural firm where the architect handed the project off to their CAD monkeys and the details just didn't make sense. They obviously knew nothing about construction or design and how to logically think through the process to convey the appropriate information. It was all just pretty pictures for their client to ooh and ahh about. Edited August 28, 2011 by SuperCAD Obviously can't spell to save my life Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DANIEL Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 I would have to disagree there. Unions are great for workers to help get them better working conditions, pay and make sure they are getting a fair go and not being ripped off. when you have union employees doing 2 hours of work in an 8 hour shift and you can't fire them because there union it is indeed detrimental, and I have seen this in person ........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkent Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 when you have union employees doing 2 hours of work in an 8 hour shift and you can't fire them because there union it is indeed detrimental, and I have seen this in person ........ Management has allowed this culture to permeate that particular business; I would lay the blame at the feet of weak management. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CyberAngel Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 I've had days where I only got 2 hours worth of work done, and it had nothing to do with unions. The point is irrelevant. Where there are strong unions, the pay is better for everyone, not just union employees. I for one am sick of seeing prices, premiums, fees, etc. go up while my pay stays the same. In effect my salary has gone down, and I'm working harder than ever. Profits keep going up. Where's your share? Have a happy Labor Day. Remember why you have a 40-hour work week, relatively safe conditions, and your dignity as a worker ... before they're all gone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilbri Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 Although we continue to stray from the original topic where I would tend to agree with most of the replies on the subject. I also would like to throw my weight behind the last two replies, namely that of a very obvious opinion that the average draftsperson these days is a CAD operator who is very capable of producing "pretty pictures" rather than being able to impart important practical information to the manufacturer or construction site. It is about time that the minimum requirements required to pre-qualify a person interested in becoming a draftsperson should be a minimum of 2 years of practical hands on workshop/site experience. I remain absolutely baffled as to how one can even put pencil to paper or fingers to keyboard without having any concept of what will be required or with what method the intended component will be manufactured and by what method it will be assembled or erected??? This comment not only applies to the draftsperson but includes the engineer, who in my day, having graduated was obliged to spend 2 years in a workshop or on a construction site in order to obtain some basic practical experience prior to him being considered for employment. As for unions, when I was a trainee we were required to belong and contribute to the union which was acceptable and worked well, whereby disputes were resolved in-house with the minimum disruption to other employees. Strike action resulted in immediate dismissal of the strikers which formed part of the contract of employment. Hopefully this is the case in the US which it certainly is not in my country and without some quick and sensible action will ultimately lead to our self destruction. Enough said; from a 70 year old semi-retired design engineer, with 17 years spent on the drawing board prior to qualifying and more recently 18 years AutoCad. So returning to the original topic, I feel that a reasonable knowledge of AutoCad plus some good hands on practical experience would be of great benefit to the "Design engineer" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkent Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 There is one engineering firm in town that does not hire draftsmen or designers, the engineers have to do it all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackBox Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 (edited) Can anyone provide an example of where it would NOT be advantageous for those in a leadership role to have experience in/with the necessary tools with which subordinates are required to work? Edited August 30, 2011 by BlackBox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Organic Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 It is about time that the minimum requirements required to pre-qualify a person interested in becoming a draftsperson should be a minimum of 2 years of practical hands on workshop/site experience. The average draftsperon, especially when fairly new to drafting is not paid particularly great as it is now. Minimum requirements liek those you suggest are just ridiculous and impractical in my opinion. This comment not only applies to the draftsperson but includes the engineer, who in my day, having graduated was obliged to spend 2 years in a workshop or on a construction site in order to obtain some basic practical experience prior to him being considered for employment. As above it is impractical and would put a lot of people off, there is already huge skill shortages of engineers in some countries. Then again, I've seen some who have never been out of a classroom before and try to apply some highly mathematical model and theory to something that should have been a 30 second common sense decision for most people. A well rounded person, average marks guy is often a better fit for most companies than the guy that graduated top of the class, yet has little social/real world skills. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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