BlackBox Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 1+ Meaningless text so I can post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khoshravan Posted August 30, 2011 Author Share Posted August 30, 2011 Can anyone provide an example of where it would NOT be advantageous for those in a leadership role to have experience in/with the necessary tools with which subordinates are required to work? This is a very good pointo:). I think I have found what I was looking for. Imagine the engineer asks the draftsman to perform a task and s/he refuses blaming that: It is impossible in AutoCAD. Who knows/judge if he is correct or not! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Organic Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 This is a very good pointo:). I think I have found what I was looking for.Imagine the engineer asks the draftsman to perform a task and s/he refuses blaming that: It is impossible in AutoCAD. Who knows/judge if he is correct or not! I've had this happen before. If it was 'impossible', then I wouldn't have asked for it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyke Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 This is a very good pointo:). I think I have found what I was looking for.Imagine the engineer asks the draftsman to perform a task and s/he refuses blaming that: It is impossible in AutoCAD. Who knows/judge if he is correct or not! Very true. That's why I still get involved in CAD and I can do everything in all of our CAD systems, not just AutoCAD, that all of the CAD workers here can do. I'm the "boss" but I'm also the first person to be consulted when they have a problem or just don't know how to do something. They all know very well that if they say it can't be done then in 99 cases out of 100 I will prove them wrong. A "boss" is a leader, by definition, and for someone to lead they must first of all understand the problem, then be able to show the "team" how the job should be done and help them in times of difficulty. Unfortunately I have experienced many "bosses" who couldn't or wouldn't lead their "team". Back to the original theme: up till now I've intentionally kept away from this thread because in my opinion each company has its own problems, tasks and way of working and its impossible to give a global answer that will satisfy all situations. But back to basics, what are we talking about here? CAD - Computer Aided Design. Design being, IMO, the key word. Design must be left to those who are qualified and trained to design. A designer should know how to use a computer to aid him in his design work. Designs can be optimized in the computer and when the final design has been agreed it must be drawn up and published. Drawn up is draughting, but where one finishes with design and begins with draughting changes from job to job and company to company. In some CAD work there is no need for a qualified and trained engineer, then the draughter can do the whole job. Its like trying to define the starting point on a circle - you can't. Have fun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackBox Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 This is a very good pointo:). I think I have found what I was looking for.Imagine the engineer asks the draftsman to perform a task and s/he refuses blaming that: It is impossible in AutoCAD. Who knows/judge if he is correct or not! Let me also be clear - I was playing the devil's advocate, so-to-speak. You see, as a former Solider, I had to make sure that I knew everything there was to know about every weapon systems, vehicle, communications procedure, or *special* equipment that the Soldiers I was responsible for leading needed to know. Admittedly, the US Military is an extremely unique example, but given my service the point seems relevant. Now, flash forward --> I'm out of the Military, and working as a civilian.... In my engineering office, only a small handful of engineers know how to use CAD (and only good enough for intent, not production quality). So I posed the question above very much for my own education, as the question seemed to me to point out the *ideal* situation, and NOT the dominant reality that exists today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Roy Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 The average draftsperon, especially when fairly new to drafting is not paid particularly great as it is now. Minimum requirements liek those you suggest are just ridiculous and impractical in my opinion. In my experience (I agree, btw), the field guys get paid better than the draftsmen. So to go from 2 years field experience to sitting behind a computer and drafting, is a BIG drop in pay. Employers don't want to pay a draftsman very much. If they have enough field experience, they want to keep them in the field, where they're good, then they can put an entry level kid behind the computer and pay him very little. As above it is impractical and would put a lot of people off, there is already huge skill shortages of engineers in some countries. Then again, I've seen some who have never been out of a classroom before and try to apply some highly mathematical model and theory to something that should have been a 30 second common sense decision for most people. A well rounded person, average marks guy is often a better fit for most companies than the guy that graduated top of the class, yet has little social/real world skills. I work with the mathematical-types. When I bring up practicality, it gets dismissed. They have huge white-boards for drawing out elaborate calculations. I'm done in 30 seconds with my calculator and pencil/paper achieving the same result...and I never attended college. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DANIEL Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 In my experience (I agree, btw), the field guys get paid better than the draftsmen. So to go from 2 years field experience to sitting behind a computer and drafting, is a BIG drop in pay. Employers don't want to pay a draftsman very much. If they have enough field experience, they want to keep them in the field, where they're good, then they can put an entry level kid behind the computer and pay him very little. I work with the mathematical-types. When I bring up practicality, it gets dismissed. They have huge white-boards for drawing out elaborate calculations. I'm done in 30 seconds with my calculator and pencil/paper achieving the same result...and I never attended college. very true, I have dealt with both situations personally, though I do have the education myself, despite the fact it is often forgotten about by my co-workers lol. It's a culture and it has to be changed from with in, if these engineers that do this sort of mularky were have as smart as they think they are they would see this, understand it and seek to rectify it, but there lack of attempts to do so speak for themselves. I once worked with an engineer who was smart enough to see this ...... aaaahhhhh .... the glory years ...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stryker1989 Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Roy Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 I printed that and put it on my wall. Yesterday, an engineer said, "So-so doesn't need to be drafting, he's apprenticing to get licensed." My response was, "An engineer that can draw is worth a lot more than one that can't." The one I was talking to, can't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackBox Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 I printed that and put it on my wall. Yesterday, an engineer said, "So-so doesn't need to be drafting, he's apprenticing to get licensed." My response was, "An engineer that can draw is worth a lot more than one that can't." The one I was talking to, can't. Did you offer him a taste of your Schweddy Balls, so you two non-drawing suckers can mope together? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Roy Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 Did you offer him a taste of your Schweddy Balls, so you two non-drawing suckers can mope together? OMG I WANT SOME!!!! LMAO!!! Hey...I draw! ...when I'm testing lisp... Acutally, I do about 90% of the Revit work. I let the other guys do the AutoCAD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackBox Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 OMG I WANT SOME!!!! LMAO!!! ^^ Golden Hey...I draw! ...when I'm testing lisp... Acutally, I do about 90% of the Revit work. I let the other guys do the AutoCAD. Naww... you know I'm just being sarcastic, my friend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Roy Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 ^^ Golden Naww... you know I'm just being sarcastic, my friend. I do, yes. Not say "Joe Blow" does, though. I'm going looking for that ice cream after work! ...and that's not sarcasm... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackBox Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 I do, yes. Not say "Joe Blow" does, though. Ha - That's punny! I'm going looking for that ice cream after work! ...and that's not sarcasm... ... I sincerely hope you enjoy your Schweddy Balls tonight - You know, assuming you can find them it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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