Vanilla, Revit or MEP?

[hertz hound]

In the last few years all the contract documents for the larger jobs that we did were derived from Revit. They were a prison, academic buildings, and a hospital. I am not sure what the smaller jobs were done in.

 

On the contracting end the work was done with AMEP. I think the main difference is that AMEP exports to the machinery that fabricates it. I am not sure if Revit is there yet. The sprinkler fitter, on the job I am on now, says he has 10 company's competing for his business. Once he has his hit free DWGs, he shops around. The larger mechanical contractors have there own fabrication shops, with there Vulcan machines.

 

Two Jobs ago the company hired to do the plumbing coordination used Revit. There were problems. It was more that, what was designed was not practical for the field. The person doing the coordination was not thinking like a plumber. There was some heated arguments between the contractor and his designer. They usually started with " Do you know how much more #?*#^ money you just cost me! Then they would roll out of the GC's trailer in a cloud of dust and fists. Ah good times... (Note: when you see a plumbing contractor start to foam at the mouth. Leave).

 

I would guess that once Revit is talking to the cam software the transformation will be complete. I don't believe that Revit is a fad, it is the future.

 

I am glad that Autodesk is still putting money into improving AMEP. It is an unbelievable program!! The more they improve it, the more it looks like Revit!

 

Here is what they are working on now.

http://labs.autodesk.com/utilities/acad_cloud_sync

This will make Project navigator work more like Revit. You have to check out a drawing to work on it. and then sync it back in. Does this sound familiar to Revit users?

[f700es]

Well I guess that I have to ask why structural was even mentioned in the 1st place since the OP asked about MEP? We might as well compare it to Inventor at this point

[SLW210]

Well I guess that I have to ask why structural was even mentioned in the 1st place since the OP asked about MEP? We might as well compare it to Inventor at this point

 

I agree, seems to be wandering off topic a bit going to structural, which is not included in the OP's needs.

[tzframpton]

Here is what they are working on now.

http://labs.autodesk.com/utilities/acad_cloud_sync

This will make Project navigator work more like Revit. You have to check out a drawing to work on it. and then sync it back in. Does this sound familiar to Revit users?

Yes, it does. Worksharing in Revit acts in this manner. You have a Central Model, and you "check out" a local copy of the model, syncing periodically which pushing your updates and downloads the other's updates. This also manages who can access what at any given point in time. Every single object in Revit, when Worksharing is enabled, has a Worksharing Enable/Relinquish tool, for a true collaborative environment.

 

I'm also glad to see more support being added to the AutoCAD based vertical products.

 

Well I guess that I have to ask why structural was even mentioned in the 1st place since the OP asked about MEP? We might as well compare it to Inventor at this point

I think it was just a scoff on Revit in general. Every version of Revit is technically the same, you just have tools and functionality that is enabled or disabled to fit whatever flavor of your install choice. Since 2013 you know have "Revit OneBox" which is one install, but all three flavors integrated and separated only by Ribbon Tabs (Architecture, Structure and Systems [MEP]).

[CADadam]

Thank you all for your input! I didn't expect in-depth responses that quickly. Especially thankful for the points tzframpton made. In weighing out the pro's and con's, I think the amount of time it would take us to change over even to AC-MEP may not be worth the end-gains, at least at this point in time. Especially with the depth of information our documentation (Mechanical Services Construction not Design) needs to contain. I think it will be prudent to experiment with the Vertical suites and start getting involved in REVIT, but perhaps only in a personal development situation at this point in time.

[tzframpton]

I think that's the right attitude. Most company's dive into AMEP or RMEP due to market demands. Here is how I got started back in 2006... it was time for an upgrade on my AutoCAD license and we waited until March 2007 for the new releases, and for an extra $100 my company got the Revit MEP Suite per my request. Fiddled around with it for a year and got pretty good at it during my downtime, and even used it on some projects, and the day came where a BIM job came through the estimator's office. By then I was already prepared and we wound up doing a fantastic job on it, and so we adopted it from then on. The rest fell in place.

 

Luckily I had supervisors who accepted as well as promoted the changes from AMEP and eventually RMEP. The old-school "Well this doesn't look like I am used to" mentality on the plotted sheets is something I didn't have to deal with, which was phenomenal beings that countless people have to deal with that when going from traditional 2D drafting to 3D BIM modeling.

 

My $0.02 worth anyways. Come back for anything else.

[Organic]

The old-school "Well this doesn't look like I am used to" mentality on the plotted sheets is something I didn't have to deal with

 

Except when you have clients and government departments who demand the plotted plans look like they used too... or else they won't pay for them or approve them.

[tzframpton]

Except when you have clients and government departments who demand the plotted plans look like they used too... or else they won't pay for them or approve them.

Not to be rude, but I'm still not understanding why these types of comments are in this thread? Yes, your comment most certainly is valid for the consulting engineering firm set of contract documents that are for particular clients and/or governmental agencies. However, "shop drawings" from mechanical contractors are submitted to the GC and Engineer which depict literal installation details, so client and governmental standards almost never apply.

[f700es]

Yeah, I am going to have to jump in as well and ask what exactly doesn't "look like they used too"? Line weights and pen styles? I mean a set of printed drawings are meant to convey design intent with information about the project. Are you dealing/dealt with a bad firm? Revit(Bim) is a tool like any other, I am sure you can get bad export from Revit much like you can from Acad. Honestly you should like many of the Acad haters on other boards (any Mac based CAD program and many on the SU board). They received a bad file from an Acad user and QED Acad is junk. Not picking on you so please don't take it as such.

[tzframpton]

Yeah, I am going to have to jump in as well and ask what exactly doesn't "look like they used too"? Line weights and pen styles? I mean a set of printed drawings are meant to convey design intent with information about the project.

In the mechanical HVAC and piping world, every since the dawn of the equipment and hand drafting design and construction documents, there has been a certain way to convey this information. Things are mostly single line and symbolic. With Revit, good luck with that. AutoCAD MEP, since it's still AutoCAD, can get closer but won't get it exact. When you're placing true dimensional geometry, and trying to represent that in a Plan View, it's very hard to get things to look the way it's been done for decades. Some examples: single line ductwork and flex duct running to the diffuser - Revit only gives you one way of showing this. Rise/Drop schematic symbols are different, pipes/ducts that are running on top of each other cannot be "separated" to show schematic runs, schematic symbols for valves and other pipe/duct accessories suffer in BIM, all sorts of things. Double lined duct and pipe, no problem. Fan powered boxes and VAV's (things that are rectangular in nature) look as they always did. It's really all these nitty gritty details and there are stories from resellers that as they are in the middle of training a company to use Revit, just because Revit can't show a rise/drop symbol a certain way, the company pulled the plug and they demanded a refund (and they got it). Literally, true story, and is it ridiculous? To me, yes. To others, maybe not. They want things shown a certain way, and BIM or no BIM - they'll fight it to the end.

 

Single line drafting and schematic symbol drafting was easier and necessary for the hand drafting days and poured over into AutoCAD and other CAD software applications. BIM is changing that mentality, since you can instantaneously produce any view you want to show the details of a project, whether it be Plan, Elevation, Section or 3D View.

 

Not picking on you so please don't take it as such.

None taken Sean.

[f700es]

Well Tanner my reply was to Organic not you

 

As I said earlier, we have have had 6 new buildings here on campus and everyone by a different A/E firm with different HVAC consultants/contractors. All done in Revit/BIM (ArchiCAD) and so far so good. Can you not control line settings in Revit MEP? We are supposed to be getting the Building Design suite soon. Maybe I'll take a more in depth look when it finally gets here. I have almost ZERO experience in HVAC plans other than approving paper ones when I was at Krispy Kreme. I honestly didn't care about line weights and such. As long as they had the equipment we had spec'ed for the build then we were good.

[tzframpton]

Well Tanner my reply was to Organic not you

 

As I said earlier, we have have had 6 new buildings here on campus and everyone by a different A/E firm with different HVAC consultants/contractors. All done in Revit/BIM (ArchiCAD) and so far so good. Can you not control line settings in Revit MEP? We are supposed to be getting the Building Design suite soon. Maybe I'll take a more in depth look when it finally gets here. I have almost ZERO experience in HVAC plans other than approving paper ones when I was at Krispy Kreme. I honestly didn't care about line weights and such. As long as they had the equipment we had spec'ed for the build then we were good.

Ah!! My bad, I just assumed you were prodding for more info is all.

 

And yes you do have control over line settings and what not, just don't think Revit is gonna let you go too far with it.

[f700es]

It's all good