Interior render, daylight outside windows?

[W3D]

Hello, I work for an interior refurbishment company dealing with clubs/pubs. I am using Autocad architecture for 3d modelling/rendering of furniture plans/layouts.

I would like to know how to successfully render and interior scene where it will appear that it is 'daytime' outside - I need to create exterior daylight scenes through windows.

 

At the moment I have been making do with rendering an interior scene that looks as though it is dark outside. (windows: material set as a black mirror) ...as it was more important to focus on the interior/layout, however it would be ideal to have more options open.

 

I havn't been doing this long and it is pretty much self taught so i doubt i'm using any correct methods of modelling/rendering. The results I am acheiving are very basic compared to any '3ds max enthusiasts' etc, but the standard is adequite for its purpose.

What would I need to do in order to create an exterior view outside of windows and to make the room look like it is lit with natural light. (so far i have been adding light sources here, there and everywhere just to light the rooms. They are usually 'floating' a good distance below the actual light fittings)

 

here are some examples:

 

 

 

no windows, but just to show you the way i am lighting things:

 

 

 

Any help would be appreciated, thanks.

[Strix]

does this give you a startpoint?

and I don't know if this is of any use too

[Lazarus]

your renders could do with a bit of improvement in terms of lighting but they are good renders!

I'm a bit confused at what you're trying to achieve.Are you trying to do an interior daylight scene?Or a daylight scene with the camera positioned outside the room but looking at the room?

Either way you need to turn on your sun,sky background&illumination(that's your direct and indirect illumination).

1.Position your desired camera.Go to camera view.Type "lightingunits" and make sure the value is set to 2(or 1 for american lighting units).This enables you to use photometric lights.

2.Turn on the sun,sky background&illumination from your lights toolbar>sun properties.Your scene now should be lit with the daylight system.In the sun angle calculator sub menu you can set a desired time&date(make sure you choose a day time).At the bottom of the Sun properties you have the option to choose your geographic loaction.In order for the sun beam to get inside the room set the appropriate time.For example if the windows are facing east choose something like 08:00 hours,cause if you choose 16:00 hours your room will be lit just with the Indirect illumination(sky).

3.In order to have a very well lit room you need to turn on Final gather & Global illuminaton from the Advanced render settings...the FG is the easier part,however you need tweaking to get a smooth photon map from your GI.

p.s. Don't forget to change the material of your windows to a normal transparent glass material.

[Noahma]

The other thing that will be needing (in addition to what laz posted, using the photometric and sun, you will need to crank up the intensity of your interior lights. I would place your lights in the fixtures to get a more realistic light look to your model. Learn a bit more about the photometric lighting, you can use the light maps from the specific manufactures, and get some pretty darn realistic lighting.

[rgarjr]

This is just a matter of playing with the sun's setttings. Just play with it and I'm sure you will come up with something. Just don't get burned while doing it..

[W3D]

An interior daytime scene is what i would like to achieve. I will have a play around with the mentioned parameters and see what i can come up with.

 

(I previously tried putting the light source in the actual light fittings, but i was getting odd results; dark patches and dodgy shadows but this is also something I will have to spend more time on.)

 

Thanks for your help.

[W3D]

your renders could do with a bit of improvement in terms of lighting but they are good renders!

I'm a bit confused at what you're trying to achieve.Are you trying to do an interior daylight scene?Or a daylight scene with the camera positioned outside the room but looking at the room?

Either way you need to turn on your sun,sky background&illumination(that's your direct and indirect illumination).

1.Position your desired camera.Go to camera view.Type "lightingunits" and make sure the value is set to 2(or 1 for american lighting units).This enables you to use photometric lights.

2.Turn on the sun,sky background&illumination from your lights toolbar>sun properties.Your scene now should be lit with the daylight system.In the sun angle calculator sub menu you can set a desired time&date(make sure you choose a day time).At the bottom of the Sun properties you have the option to choose your geographic loaction.In order for the sun beam to get inside the room set the appropriate time.For example if the windows are facing east choose something like 08:00 hours,cause if you choose 16:00 hours your room will be lit just with the Indirect illumination(sky).

3.In order to have a very well lit room you need to turn on Final gather & Global illuminaton from the Advanced render settings...the FG is the easier part,however you need tweaking to get a smooth photon map from your GI.

p.s. Don't forget to change the material of your windows to a normal transparent glass material.

 

...with these settings, do i need to remove/turn off my current lighting?

And i'd also like to know the best methods that would display a view outside of the window. e.g. trees, fields, carpark, buildings etc. I still want the scene to be rendered from inside of the room, but i'd like to see that there is something outside rather than just a plain colour behind the windows if you know what i mean?

[Lazarus]

...with these settings, do i need to remove/turn off my current lighting?

And i'd also like to know the best methods that would display a view outside of the window. e.g. trees, fields, carpark, buildings etc. I still want the scene to be rendered from inside of the room, but i'd like to see that there is something outside rather than just a plain colour behind the windows if you know what i mean?

 

I think that it would be best if you turn off your current lights for a day scene.You can have some of them turned on if there are parts of the room wich are hard to lit even with a daylight.

About the background...you can save your renders as a .tiff or .bmp extension,wich i think saves the alpha channel.Then you can add your background in photoshop.Think you can also set a background image in Autocad by saving your current view and customizing it.

[W3D]

Thanks for your info Lazarus, I'll post back with results.

 

you can save your renders as a .tiff or .bmp extension,wich i think saves the alpha channel.Then you can add your background in photoshop.

 

Although I use photoshop, I wasn't aware that autocad did this...it could be very handy!

 

cheers.

[W3D]

...Lazarus, I have just been looking at some of your work and I'm very impressed! I didn't know that was possible in autocad.

 

I accept I am very much a beginner with all of this, and even though it is not necessarily required in my job (I do alot of 2D work); I really hope to be at that level some day just as a personal goal.

[Lazarus]

Thank you for the kind words, but in my opinion your renders are pretty good.The modeling is great,texture maping could do with a bit of improvement and the lighting ofcourse.With a bit of practice you'll get the hang of it it's not that complicated.

Post any questions you have here,and the finised work in the showcase section so we can comment on it.

Cheers.

[W3D]

I'm not having any luck, my renders are coming out very dark. (more realistic but very,very dark)

I am using the mentioned methods and I have messed about with it alot but i can't seem to get the room lit.

 

 

 

The closest I have got to getting some natural light into the room is by increasing the 'energy multiplier' under light properties, but the results are disappointing:

 

 

 

Regarding background images: I have tried saving as a .tiff with aplha channels but i have been unsuccessfull in placing an image behind the windows. I don't really wan't to cut them in to place as it can get tedious and the results won't be that impressive. Does this have something to do with having the sky on as a background?

[Lazarus]

Ok,i can see that the room is hardly lit with the sun...the light beam is getting into the room on the left part(bottom left window) and that's not enough to light the scene.Make sure you adjust the angle correctly or even try to rotate the whole model appropriatly.

It's hard for me to explain so could you post a screen shot of your sun settings and render settings?

Here's a reference screen shot from a recent work i did.Maybe it could help you to clear things out.

[/img] *Ignore the third tab that's for the artificial lighting.

Here's a few tips for you:

1.After the sun angle adjustment,after adjusting the FG and GI,if your image is still dark you could place a few point lights with shadows turned off,placed at the mid height of the room to serve as ambient lighting.

2.Use the "RENDEREXPOSURE" command and bump up the brightness,contrast and midtones of yor image.

3.This is something i use:Freeze the layer with your glass windows,cause the glass is restricting the energy of the light to get into the room.(if i can state it that way ) If there's nothing to reflect in it you can't tell the difference.This has been done that way/second pic: http://www.cadtutor.net/forum/showthread.php?t=29202 *The render settings i posted above are from the same scene setup.

 

About placing a background image...i'm not good at that,but maybe someone else will joint in this discussion and help you out.But the sky background must be ON in the render because that's your indirect illumination.

Cheers.

[W3D]

I havn't uploaded a screenshot of my settings for that render as I can't remember what i used since changing them so many times lol. I have looked at your settings and will see what i can do with them.

 

The glass in the windows isn't on a seperate layer as they are automated windows found in the 'architecture' package. Is it critical to freeze/remove the glass.

 

This testing stage is hard as rendering is very slow with high settings even at low resolutions. I am using XP 32bit with 4GB ram & 2.4Ghz AMD Athlon dual core 4600+.

 

My system at home has a Q6600 @3.2Ghz with 8GB ram so it may be worth taking some of my work home.

[W3D]

...the only way i am adjusting the sun position is by the time setting. (which I am not farmiliar with) Is there a way to move it manually?

 

FG and GI I have also never used, so the parameters for each mean nothing to me. Its pure trial and error at the moment.

[papagyi]

..

 

FG and GI I have also never used, so the parameters for each mean nothing to me. Its pure trial and error at the moment.

You won't to use FG & GI that can give actual rendering friend!..pls check ..http://www.cadtutor.net/forum/showthread.php?t=22690

Next!when you want to see custom background ..pls check it ..http://www.cadtutor.net/forum/showthread.php?t=28944

[Lazarus]

I am using the mentioned methods and I have messed about with it alot but i can't seem to get the room lit.

FG and GI I have also never used, so the parameters for each mean nothing to me.

Final Gather and Global Illumination should be turned on if you want a realistic result.

[W3D]

I am using FG and GI since starting this thread...what i meant is that i havn't ever used them before in previous renders.

 

I think I'll add some point lights in the room(with shadows off) as you explained.

[rgarjr]

Yeah the sun rises up in the morning on the East, then at midday its right on top, then sets down in the evening at sundown in the West.

[Noahma]

...the only way i am adjusting the sun position is by the time setting. (which I am not farmiliar with) Is there a way to move it manually?

 

FG and GI I have also never used, so the parameters for each mean nothing to me. Its pure trial and error at the moment.

 

 

under the sun settings for time and date, there should be a little clock like thing, you can move the line within this dial to show where the north direction is in your drawing, that way you do not have to rotate your model.