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So how are you guys coming along with BIM ?

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So I thought I'd do a small write up on how CAD is progressing in the UK.

 

Over the past number of years (about 5 years), there has been a big drive to get UK CAD production on to an international standard so that CAD can become more collaborative and have the ease of sending to anywhere in the world whereby somebody else can easily pick it up, work on it, interrogate it etc.

 

The UK government now stipulate that if a company wishes to bid for, and have any chance of winning, a contract that the government (or government body/agency) holds to award, then such a company must demonstrate BIM Level 2 compliance as a minimum.

 

So over the past 3 years our large civil engineering company has made a big drive to introduce CAD standards that fit well and comply with BIM Level 2.

 

Its been a struggle and we find that CAD users don't like change, they don't like having to do additional tasks such as creating BIM layer names to the Nth degree for every asset drawn, etc. etc.

 

The file names have now become so long that it is verging on the comical.

 

So the new struggle is to have an effective method of checking CAD work so that it is complying with the standards.

 

As with any change, it seems there is a slow progression from one method to another.

The younger CAD Techs adapt well, the older ones seem to think their methods are the one and only way to do CAD.

Probably a similar story up and down the country - every country ;)

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What can I add.. Bit Same here in the Netherlands.

However, the government drive for "bim awareness" (awful words) is less than In uk.

The bubble will burst..

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The younger CAD Techs adapt well, the older ones seem to think their methods are the one and only way to do CAD.

Probably a similar story up and down the country - every country ;)

Exactly similar. There are certain guys here on this forum who swear... absolutely swear that BIM and Revit is nothing more than a fad. It's quite hilarious.

 

But, I'll always stand by this until something changes, the civil world does not have a good BIM offering yet (if ever). BIM is important in vertical work, not horizontal work. Not sure why civil is so important to be "BIM" anyways.

 

-TZ

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Yes I will fully agree with you that BIM is not tailored yet to working with long linear schemes such as road networks etc.

Long length drainage schemes for example look silly in 3D, the user has to scroll back and forth the entire length of a scheme to appreciate the model. This can be many miles/kilometers in length. I am half expecting a huge rise in "repetitive strain injury" claims to come flooding through!

 

A good solid CAD standard is a good idea, an international CAD standard is also a good idea. But throwing "BIM" at everything and expecting it to work and produce savings no matter what the job is, this is a failing in the making I think.

 

But one good side to all this is that people are working to make things better, a lot of new software is coming along that goes to make the digital world of assets and construction more user friendly and more effective to visualize.

 

I think I'm correct (although I stand to be corrected) in saying that AutoDesk are in a process of halting developments in the likes of AutoCAD in favour of tailoring new software for BIM.

Instead of software outlets dictating what can/can't be done, there is now a strong push from the end user to dictate to software developers what they want to be able to do. And BIM is a good 'driver' of that.

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I think I'm correct (although I stand to be corrected) in saying that AutoDesk are in a process of halting developments in the likes of AutoCAD in favour of tailoring new software for BIM.
AutoCAD has had its day in certain industries. We couldn't have come this far in our industries without it. People do not want to rely on "drafting lines" anymore. My new hire, I'm teaching him AutoCAD basics just to get him up to speed on the small AutoCAD work we still do, and I'm seeing how much more difficult it is to manipulate linework now. It's second nature to me. But when I get him into Revit, these little nuances of editing linework simply do not matter. The program does all this for you, and does it quite well.

 

It's actually made me rethink my next employee. I may hire an experienced AutoCAD only person just to handle all AutoCAD needs. No more "training" in AutoCAD. It's a losing battle in my industry (mechanical, electrical and plumbing). Isometric Plumbing Riser diagrams would be literally the only thing necessary to continue training for and I'd rather have an experienced guy who refuses to adopt new software just handle all AutoCAD based stuff.

 

-TZ

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BIM this, bim this.. In every single work, phrase, hilarious discussions.

Do you guys know 'the smurfs'? A lot of bim talk is just like it. You are exactly right with auto desk plans for dwg.

Maybe you should Look further than Autodesk ..

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The UK government now stipulate that if a company wishes to bid for, and have any chance of winning, a contract that the government (or government body/agency) holds to award, then such a company must demonstrate BIM Level 2 compliance as a minimum.

 

So over the past 3 years our large civil engineering company has made a big drive to introduce CAD standards that fit well and comply with BIM Level 2.

 

As a civil engineering firm, what sot of BIM data do you have to provide? What software do you use to generate that data?

 

Are you supplying more than 3D solids that look 'pretty'?

 

A 3D finished surface model is the obvious one and which most firms would be doing already. As to modelling things like small culvert headwalls in 3D etc, I just don't see the point. I know of one firm that models guideposts in 3D along their road designs... it doesn't mean their design is any better.

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We are moving to 3D machine control for our civil designs. The last one I did was a drainage line so created a 900mm trench surface model, they went and dug it.

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What can I add.. Bit Same here in the Netherlands.

However, the government drive for "bim awareness" (awful words) is less than In uk.

The bubble will burst..

 

You really think BIM is a "bubble"? BIM is not unique to AutoDesk nor Revit btw. LOTS of applications use some type of BIM file/format (IFC for example). Just saying ;)

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...

I think I'm correct (although I stand to be corrected) in saying that AutoDesk are in a process of halting developments in the likes of AutoCAD in favour of tailoring new software for BIM.

...

 

Nah, not anytime soon. As I joking said in another thread, AutoCAD will stop being developed when Linux takes over the desktop market ;)

Sure BIM is the future, no argument there. There are just WAY too many onesies twosies shops out there doing all kids of work that AutoCAD does just what they need.

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You really think BIM is a "bubble"? BIM is not unique to AutoDesk nor Revit btw. LOTS of applications use some type of BIM file/format (IFC for example). Just saying ;)

 

Yes I think BIM is a bubble in the sense that the thought of bringing all kinds od data into ONE 3d model is a plain bull****. It should be about CONNECTING data /people/ whatever..

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Yes I think BIM is a bubble in the sense that the thought of bringing all kinds od data into ONE 3d model is a plain bull****. It should be about CONNECTING data /people/ whatever..

 

I guess we'll have to wait for the holographic systems that all the supervillains have.:twisted::lol:

 

I agree with you. Putting all the data in one place is a good first step, but it does nothing to boost collaboration. And as someone else noted, management has to endorse the technology if not embrace it. The technology has gotten better, but the software and the wetware can't keep up.

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We are moving to 3D machine control for our civil designs. The last one I did was a drainage line so created a 900mm trench surface model, they went and dug it.

 

I'm a big fan of 3D machine control in general for bulk earthworks & roadworks although haven't implemented it for drainage works (other than 3D strings representing the pipes etc).

 

Modelling a trench for volume purposes (and based on the 3D drainage strings to keep it easy) I understand (although wouldn't bother with personally) although I wouldn't use it for machine control. E.g. if the trench varies in depth from 1m to 2m then if you do a 3D model you really need to do a proper model and incorporate benches and similar. I'd rather not the liability of a trench not being benched correctly and in breach of OH&S etc. It is bad enough when I'm onsite and in a trench and see that it isn't benched correctly (e.g. they push it 200 or 300mm further than they should have); workcover would have a much dimmer view I presume.

 

In my experience the trench width on a site often varies (for the same size pipes) due to operator skill, buckets available and plant available.

 

One thing to be careful with is drop pits and how 3D data is generated an interpreted; have seen issues with machine control and those before...

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I agree with you. Putting all the data in one place is a good first step, but it does nothing to boost collaboration.

 

This. For below ground utilities, in house we are using 3D models for clash detection of services we design say however none of that (3D data/models) is then provided to other utilities doing their own in ground work (or vice versa).

 

In terms of building projects and above ground services, it is the same scenario for us in terms of no model/digital collaboration except we aren't doing 3D models at all in that space with the exception of major structural elements (and only then as the model is required for the analysis; e.g. the 3D model is a nice to have although not essential). Some architects we work on projects with do have 3D models (Revit, ArchiCad etc) although they (other than 2D paper plans & DWG files) don't feed into other disciplines in my experience. This is for typical projects in the 1M to 20M range though; I presume the bigger the projects, the more collaboration/model sharing and where IFC becomes more used in terms of master models from multiple sources and associated clash detection.

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IFC still does little to nothing for civil, gis, (many other tasks)..

Too bad the development (implementation) is going so slow. 'one model' in bim discussions can be read as 'one fileformat' .. Mycent

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I'm sure BIM is the wave of the future, but we still have hardly touched it. Could be my discipline, though... civil.

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The 'information' part is the strange in current solution being sold as BIM software. What piece of data is information, to who? At what stage? There are so many tools and stakeholder involved to call the proces BIM.

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