STB and CTB advantages/ disadvantages

[rkent]

There is a lot of misinformation concerning CTB and STB and so I am offering this as my input to the issue. I like STB’s over CTB’s for my situation, and I have bolded the areas where I find STB’s to be superior. You will have to explore the alternatives and make an informed choice for your office.

Advantages \ Disadvantages

CTB =
Plot style name (IE:Color_43) is not intuitive to plot color or LW or gray scale
26 linewieghts, same as in STB
Lots of legacy drawings that need to be brought forward and used again, easier to keep CTB
Plot style name cannot be changed
Limited to plot colors of 1-255, other colors show on screen but are plotted out to 1-255
Familiar system still used by majority of users
Plotting b/w there are fewer reasons to switch as STB was meant more for electronic color
plotting (according to Autodesk)
If I want 15 colors to plot screened and medium thickness I must edit 15 plot style names,
then 15 more for other LW, etc
Sharing files between offices means that the plot style names will always be there, just
defined differently for each color, still have to go through and check plot name style to plotted color, width, etc.
XREFs, the xref file can be set to plot to a thinner line weight but the color will be one
color displayed on screen, or you will have to pick each color and assign a plot style name

STB =
Plot style names are intuitive (IE: BW 0.40, Thin Color, Medium, GRAY 0.25) for knowing color and LW
plotted using Bylayer allows familiar colors known to plot thin, thick etc, to still be
obvious on screen
Plotting black and white and color on the same sheet is easier due to intuitive plot style names
26 lineweights, same as in CTB
Probably can get by with 15 or 20 plot style names, CTB you always have 255 all named with a color
If 15 colors need to plot screened and medium thickness only 1 plot style name is edited
and assigned to multiple colors, results in much fewer plot style names needed
If other offices use their own style names, using their files will result in assigning
the plot style name to ones you use, unless everyone agrees to use the same plot styles
XREF's, the xref file can be set to plot to a thinner line weight with one plot style
name and the colors on screen will still display the same color, and they can be set
to display one color if need be
Editing the plot styles can be done through the layer manager or properties palette
STB's work just fine, and just like CTB's you must have standards in place
You can still set colors to indicate lineweights just like CTB's
You can set a layer to a color and have it plot to any lineweight with a plotstyle
You can set each object to a plot style or mix and match, but this is not a strategy for working drawings, more for one off presentation drawings, etc.
More flexibility in setting up and this equals more ways for users to screw it up

[NBC]

Your bold comment re: "Editing the plot styles can be done through the layer manager or properties palette" also applies to CTB

[michaeloureiro]

is there a way to convert stb to ctb??

[rkent]

Your bold comment re: "Editing the plot styles can be done through the layer manager or properties palette" also applies to CTB

No you can't, perhaps you misunderstand but if you go to the layer manager in with STB plotstyle name you can double click on that name and it will call up the STB for editing. In a drawing with a CTB the plot style name is grayed out and you cannot edit it from there.

[michaeloureiro]

i know, i opened a dwg with a stb plot style a while back ago and couldn´t reconfigure anything...

[NBC]

No you can't, perhaps you misunderstand but if you go to the layer manager in with STB plotstyle name you can double click on that name and it will call up the STB for editing. In a drawing with a CTB the plot style name is grayed out and you cannot edit it from there.

Why on earth would you want to do that ?
If your plot style (either STB or CTB it matters not) is robust enough, then you should rarely (if ever) change it.

[rkent]

If your plot style (either STB or CTB it matters not) is robust enough, then you should rarely (if ever) change it.

One size does not fit all. What works for you doesn't necessarily work for others.

To answer your question, it is very handy when developing the plot style and for those one off issues that come up from time to time. Sometimes I add a name to cover something unforseen at the time of the styles design.

[michaeloureiro]

Here at the office we work with ctb´s and i didn´t even know of stb´s until we received a file that we could only change if we had compreensive knowledge of all the layer and or color values...
doesn´t seem very efficient for file sharing.

[michaeloureiro]

I understand how stb´s might be the right choice for technical dwg´s but i think it just doesn´t cut it when designing.

Can anybody help me with the convertion or just eliminating the stb from the file altogether.

[rkent]

I understand how stb´s might be the right choice for technical dwg´s but i think it just doesn´t cut it when designing.

Can anybody help me with the convertion or just eliminating the stb from the file altogether.

STB's are something you have to dive into, and once you have used them for a while a light bulb goes on and you wonder how you ever went with out them. They are good for any situation.

If I had to work only with CTB it wouldn't bother me or slow me down a bit, I just prefer STB given the choice.

Convertpstyles is the command you want to use.

[StykFacE]

STB's are far, far, far superior to CTB plot styles. I wish I can get my guys here to convert over and start using them, but honestly it would be a mess for them to finally figure out the variety of advantages and control you have. Sometimes they have a hard enough time using the 10 +/- colors we use with our current CTB file. (Gosh, when I think about this it makes me cringe, we are still in the stone age of drafting IMHO at my company.... lol)

I use STB plot styles when I do work for the President of my company, who still Project Manages one client of ours, and very very special projects. That's because only I touch the CAD files and nobody else. :)

[NBC]

Can't say I will ever move over to STB's.

[Dipali]

Can't say I will ever move over to STB's.

I feel the same. I am not denaying it could be better but have never had problems with ctb's & i use lots of colors in my drawing & i assign diff. linweights that suits those colors.
easiest way with ctb is I have fixed line weights for color 1 to 12 that I use mainly & than i have set up same lineweights for color 15,25,35.........like wise fro 16,26,36.......... & so on. so I can use all 256 colors i want & I know exactly how that color will print.

It is just that what everybody says ' to each their own' & there are many ways to do things in cad.

PS:BLUE - I was reading thru all your posts in both the threads since few days but was too busy to write at thast time.

[ReMark]

It's deja vu all over again.

Big time CTB user here. Does it really matter? As long as the output appears as you have imagined it would then it doesn't matter if you used a STB, a CTB, a NBC or a DTT. Those last two are bogus by the way.

[NBC]

Hey !!! I'm not bogus ! I'm a real person !

[ReMark]

Disclaimer:

At no time was I referring to the gentleman known as NBC. He is a righteous and kind soul.o:)

[Dipali]

and you got my initials partially correct.
its DDT by the way:wink:

[ReMark]

OMG!

Disclaimer #2:

At no time was I referring to the lovely and talented Dipali.

Whew! Is that everyone?

[michaeloureiro]

thanks, i needed that one.

[michaeloureiro]

Convertpstyles command that is.

[stevsmith]

I dont care, as long as the workers in the fab shop can read the drawings easily and make what is required.
I think it more comes down to the plotters print quality.

How sad was that little speech anyway.
stb ctb.....
Im more worried about how to get rid of this STD I got from that BBW I met last month in NYC.

[drwhite]

Ok. I too had always used a CTB for plotting. After coming to Mech 2010 though, I found that the page setup seemed to only apply to the MODEL tab. I could not apply a named page setup to a layout. I have used layouts, I guess, sort of like this sheet sets concept. I still don't understand sheet sets. But, I digress. I created an STB. I now get the correct lineweights plotted without having to edit anything. Keep you posted on further errors.

[mtrasi]

Nowadays, you can assign different lineweights and colors for every viewport an for every layer. You don't need to assign different CTB to every layout. You can use true color even in AutoCAD LT. True color will be printed coloured anyway, with every ctb.
So, you can always use Monochrome.ctb to plot both black and white (ACI colors) and full color (True color).
I think the only reson you have to use old fashion CTB (every ACI color = different plotted width/color) is: you deal with people still using customized ctbs, or you have old drawings using your own ctbs.
I don't see any reason to use STB: they are more powerful than ctb, but quite nobody knows them, so we can say they are "out of standard"; I mean, if You use them, other people may not understand your drawings, and the good thing with AutoCAD is that everybody working with a CAD understands it.

I think: if we all use monochrome, we can say end to sending customized files for plot styles, and have a common working standard (using other ctb or stb only in some very special cases)

[drwhite]

Whether or not I'm using an STB or CTB is immaterial to me. I don't plot color plots for a machine shop or a tool and die shop. I print Black and White. I want to have a professional looking drawing with multiple pen weights, thick for visible line, thin for hidden and dimensioning lines. Sort of like I was taught by French and Vierck years ago. Remember the "language of lines"? My problem is that I can plot with a pen setup in model space, but I cannot do it in paper space. Is there someway with the sheetset that I can do this? In paper space you can supposedly "import" a page setup, but it never appears, it just says it has been defined. I can't use it, but it has been defined. Well, how can I use it? Do I have to create another page setup from scratch every time I click on a layout tab within the drawing? Somebody explain all this to me.

[StykFacE]

Whether or not I'm using an STB or CTB is immaterial to me. I don't plot color plots for a machine shop or a tool and die shop. I print Black and White. I want to have a professional looking drawing with multiple pen weights, thick for visible line, thin for hidden and dimensioning lines. Sort of like I was taught by French and Vierck years ago. Remember the "language of lines"? My problem is that I can plot with a pen setup in model space, but I cannot do it in paper space. Is there someway with the sheetset that I can do this? In paper space you can supposedly "import" a page setup, but it never appears, it just says it has been defined. I can't use it, but it has been defined. Well, how can I use it? Do I have to create another page setup from scratch every time I click on a layout tab within the drawing? Somebody explain all this to me.
CTB has nothing to do with Plotting in color. CTB has everything to do with assigning a line thickness and other properties to a color so your eyes can distinguish easily what line will be what thickness via the setup of your CTB file that you create. You can set each color to plot monochrome, but utilize the lineweights, linetypes, line styles, and some other properties.

The best thing about computers is the ability to reference through memory. That's all a CTB really does.... it references a mapped grid of properties to every object in your drawing. :)

[mtrasi]

HI

Differences using paper space (layouts)
The setup you do in Model space is the same you do in layouts. No difference (apart from setting plot to 1:1 and using viewport view scale to plot in scale), so your doubt has no basis. In AutoCAD R14 the plot setup was forgotten every time. The only way to avoid reconfigure every time was to plot always in the same way (awful), or save it as a .pc2.
From version 2000 to version 2005, your plot setup (model or paper space) was stored by default in every sheet (model or layout) when you plotted. In AutoCAD 2005 and later the default is not to store it, you can see it because there's a check box for this, and now it's not checked by default. Check the checkbox and everytime you plot your page setup will be saved in your drawing. Anyway, if you use the "Apply" button, it is stored even if the checkbox is not checked.

Page setups: where are them?
You can use File menu to manage page setups.
You can't apply model space page setups in layouts, the same way you can't apply layout page setups in model space. When you are in a layout and create a new page setup, you can use it in any other layout.

Lineweights
Especially if you are plotting Black and White, you set lineweights in layers (or, if needed, also in single object's properties, but I don't suggest it, for the same reason for I don't suggest to apply colors directly to objects: use layers colors and lineweights and bylayer property for objects, instead).
So:
go to layers properties (LAYER command)
set lineweights and colors for every layer (see the columns "color" and "lineweight")
create objects with "ByLayer" for their color and lineweight
use Monochrome.ctb when you plot (expand plot window and choose monochrome from plot styles dropdown list)That's all. It's simple and professional.
Colors are useful in the screen to recognize object's layer, but they will be printed black.

If you really want to use your AutoCAD like if it was an AutoCAD R14 (but it was 1995..), you can use different plot configurations, and not Monochrome.ctb, or even customize them. But if you want to send your drawings to anyone without attaching customized CTBs, you shouldn't. I suggest to use the standard monochrome, instead.

At the end..
Everyone works like he likes more with AutoCAD. Somebody is acquainted with customizing ACI colors/lineweights conversion tables and they obviously work good anyway.
Mine are only suggestions to simplify using modern autocad features, because I have to be always up to date, cause my work is teaching AutoCAD in a Autodesk Authorized Training Center in Italy (that's why my bad english...), so I know a bit of what Autodesk thinks about best work flush. But the best advantage of using AutoCAD is that, depending on your work and your preferences, you can do it the way you like, and many ways and they maybe are still all "the right way"...

[mtrasi]

Hey drWhite

I forgot to say:
in AutoCAD Mechanical you have an advanced layer management, that shows different windows for layers from AutoCAD.
You should go to AutoCAD Options Dialog box (right click command bar and you'll find Options in the menu) and change your layer settings there, in the tab where you also set your standards for mechanical dimensions, texts, etc.
This will affect the drawing you have opened while you go to options, so if you want to change your template (the dwt you use), open it and do these modifications there, then save it.

Last question: Mechanical has a good management of plot also in Model space, with different scale areas, automatical dimension measurement scale and so on. If you don't like layouts, while do you use them?

[MikeC1956]

get a lot of outside drawings and the ones that irk me the most are the one where the ctb has been eliminated altogether...luckily, Autodesk was kind enough to post TS1055860...

to change from stb to ctb type convertpstyles at the command line and voila, all your favorite plot styles show up...

to change from ctb to stb type convertctb at the command line...pick the ctb you want to use as an stb and away you go...:)

[drwhite]

I want to testify that all the responses after my reply from StykFace, mtrasi, and especially MikeC1956 have been of tremendous help to me. Like Mikes, CONVERTCTB. I always heard for years that most AutoCAD users don't make use of more than 10% (if that) of the available commands and variables inside AutoCAD. I am so glad I found this forum. I read it daily if possible in the last 20 minutes of my lunch hour. Like the old man in Python's Holy Grail, "....but I'm getting better".

[The Courage Dog]

simply use the commands CONVERTPSTYLES & CONVERTCTB to convert .ctb & .stb plotsyles.

[drwhite]

OK. All I want to know is this. If I choose a page setup in Model space, the plot prints out exactly like I want it, darker, thicker lines for visible objects, thinner lines for dimensions, section lines, etc. On that page setup I have specified a CTB. No particular reason other than it allows me to set the pen width to the color, turn off dithering, and create a professional looking plot. Now to my problem. I cannot do this in paper space. The only way is to plot the model space, then follow up to plot a paper space (or layout) using "previous plot". I tried converting a CTB to STB. Did a page setup using STB thusly converted. Same result, all lines are barely visible. I just wish it were simple. No CTB, no STB, just plot by lineweight assigned in the layer command. How does one do that?

[ReMark]

We routinely plot from a layout using a CTB with no problem. We even have our lineweights specified in the Layer Properties Manager in some drawings and still have no problems.

[NBC]

We routinely plot from a layout using a CTB with no problem. We even have our lineweights specified in the Layer Properties Manager in some drawings and still have no problems.
Amen to that.

[Crazy J]

I'm still new enough and haven't plotted much really. I read through all this and you all have good points....

but what does STB and CTB stand for?

[ReMark]

CTB - Color-dependent plot style table.

STB - Named plot style table.

[drwhite]

OK. Figured it out. Just pick plotter, specify the plot style, and if the preview is right, you're done. Doesn't matter if you're on the Model tab, or a layout tab. Most of the time you'll have to do a page setup to set things right for that layout. Always did it that way.

[drwhite]

Again. I opened another drawing session. Picked a drawing from a different directory. Same support path, everything. Picked plot. On the model tab. Picked plot. Picked the printer I wanted and none on page setup. Wasn't right. Exited, went to page setup. Pick the printer. Picked the CTB I wanted. Picked paper, plot with styles, extents, yada, yada. When I clicked apply, Autocad asked if I wanted apply THESE settings to all layouts. I selected YES, and apply. Preview was what I wanted. Went to layout tab. Clicked plot. Bingo, nothing like what I said APPLY TO ALL LAYOUTS.
Why didn't it take?

[rkent]

Again. I opened another drawing session. Picked a drawing from a different directory. Same support path, everything. Picked plot. On the model tab. Picked plot. Picked the printer I wanted and none on page setup. Wasn't right. Exited, went to page setup. Pick the printer. Picked the CTB I wanted. Picked paper, plot with styles, extents, yada, yada. When I clicked apply, Autocad asked if I wanted apply THESE settings to all layouts. I selected YES, and apply. Preview was what I wanted. Went to layout tab. Clicked plot. Bingo, nothing like what I said APPLY TO ALL LAYOUTS.
Why didn't it take?

Modelspace pagesetups can't be used in PS and vise-a-versa. Not sure why it would ask to apply to all when in MS, another feature I guess.

You will want to establish all your pagesetups in a common file, I use my template, and then import them in with the click of a button, pick the one you want and hit ok. No sense reinventing the wheel every time.

[junaidi]

i'm using stb however i can't change the plot style at the layer properties manager...

[StykFacE]

Is the Plot Style column grayed out and you're unable to select a style? If so I'm assuming you're still in a drawing that is set up for CTB.

Type CONVERTPSTYLES at the command line and see if that helps.

[rkent]

In the layer manager you should see the plotstyle column and in the column there should be plot style names and not grayed out names like Color_2, etc.

[the_real_ptb]

After I use the CONVERTPSTYLES command, I always have to save the drawing, close it and then re-open it to get the plot styles to kick in; if I don't re-open I am using STB but my machine will not recognize it.

[rkent]

After I use the CONVERTPSTYLES command, I always have to save the drawing, close it and then re-open it to get the plot styles to kick in; if I don't re-open I am using STB but my machine will not recognize it.

I have never had that happen, maybe it is a Civil 3D thing.