Solidedit and Shell

Hi

Please find attached a drawing which shows two 'stays' (for a window).

One of the stays is a shell which was created from the other by using the 'shell' option of 'solidedit' in order to hollow out the interior. I then removed one face from the shell by subtracting an intersecting object that I had drawn.

Now I believe that I can get the 'shell' option to do this automatically for me by removing faces prior to completing the command, but I'm really not having any success. It always seems to me that when I try to select the face I need, only an edge is selected, or I can't select the face I want (in this case, the upper face as shown).

Please can someone explain to me what I am doing wrong, and point me in the right direction.

Thanks.

Stay - 3D.dwg

Here is my sample file.You can check my drawing...1st is 4,4,4 cube.2nd is express with p1 edge ,p2 edge ,p3 edge.3nd is final result.First,you need to get "shell" command and select a second solid then you must need to select p1 edge and p2 edge to remove face.Next "a" enter to add selection to p3 edge.After ..Enter....5(for distance offset)..enter..enter.Now you will see your wish result.

1..select solid

2.Remove faces or [undo/add/all]:..select p1edge and p2 edge

3.Remove faces or [undo/add/all]: "a" enter

4.Remove faces or [undo/add/all]: select P3 edge

5.Remove faces or [undo/add/all]: enter

6.Enter the shell offset distance :.5 enter enter renter

shell papa.dwg

Thanks for your help - Sorry for the late reply.

Your explanation helps a lot, but I'm still struggling with the more complicated shapes. I am not sure which edges to select, and try as I might, can't seem to work it out.

If you consider the attached drawing, I want to make a shell out of the red model, but make it almost tubular, so that the end faces (duplicated in blue) are open, revealing the interior.

Using Solidedit, which edges do I select in order to manipulate these faces as I want?

Shell.dwg

Finally worked it out, but am not sure about one aspect of the process. If I can explain how I did this, perhaps someone can explain why.

Looking at the attached drawing, I started the shell part of solidedit, and selected the model.

I 'removed' edges 1 and 2, and this automatically selected edge 3, which a then had to re'add' to the selection set. I did the same for the 2 other 'open' faces (removed 4 and 5 then re'add'ed 6, removed 7 and 8 then re'add'ed 3).

My question is this. When I select the first 2 edges (eg 1 and 2), why is edge 3 selected (so that I then need to add it again)?

Shell.dwg

In addition to the previous post, because I am not clear about which edges to select and why, I cannot 'shell' the attached file.

The blue lines on the 'construction' layer is a wireframe representation of what I want to achieve using the solidedit>shell command.

If anyone can help clarify the subject, I'd be very grateful.

Shell 2.dwg

paul, unfortunately i am not able to open your file at home since i am using acad05. can you save your file as an acad04 version. This would allow me to open your drawing.

Thanks, here it is.

Shell 2.dwg

Shell.dwg

looking at the drawing. since you already have the blue lines it would be easier to just subtract that section rather than use the shell command, unless i am looking at this wrong. Am i correct in assuming you only want the center of this piece removed, the actual "hook or latch" part will stay solid?

Thanks for your help.

The blue lines are a rough representation of what I need.

If I were able to use shell, I could just specify the relevent faces to remove and then the wall thickness. I could (with some thought) use subtract, but I imagine SOLIDEDIT > SHELL would be much quicker if I could master it.

At this stage I only want to subtract the blue 'wedge'. I realise that there might be a better method for this shape, but in view of the problems I experienced earlier (see shell.dwg) I'd like to be able to do it by mastering SOLIDEDIT > SHELL if possible.

I think my problem with the command is that I am just not clear as to which edges to select in order to select which faces.

[ATTACH]8096[/ATTACH]assuming thats what you were trying to do i first attempted to make a solid to remove that space, but since all the sides had taper to them, i didnt go through the trouble of figuring out what that was so i used the slice command 4 times. I sliced the object using your blue triangles as two separate planes, then i sliced the center piece that was left from that back side towards the arc of the latch using your blue lines as my 3 points. then i used New Ucs, and 3 point to align the xy plane with the ende of your part, and i sliced the two center pieces using the xy plane option and a point on the end of your blue line. Then i subtracted the section i didnt want and Union to recombine all the components.

It would have been much easier to subtract a wedge from the part since you knew what material you wanted removed.

here is a screen shot. Is this what you were trying to achieve?

honestly i rarely use the shell command. It seems to need an edge and not a face. I find it much easier to subtract another solid from my entity. In your case i would have drawn that in two parts. Let me drawing something real quick to show you.

i should also mention intersection is a powerful command that can be used in this case as well.

Thanks again Shifty.

I think I was busy adding my last post while you were (kindly) making your changes.

Yes that is exactly what I want, but my last post explains my reasoning re the SOLIDEDIT > SHELL. Subtraction is easy, but not if the object is more complicated with filleted edges and so on.

I think my example (shell2.dwg) may not be the best, so I'll change the task slightly so that shell is more appropriate.

Instead of cutting out the whole wedge, I now want to know how to make 2 versions of the object in shell2.dwg - one a shell 3mm with the top face is open (the green line on my new attached drawing) and one with the back face open (the blue line on the new drawing).

If I can master both examples here, I should be able to combine both to arrive at your solution.

Any help would, as always, be appreciated.

Shell 3.dwg

i dont think in the case of your part shell is really the appropriate command, unless the latch part was a separate object and you were just trying to shell the tapered wedge part.

here are a few files that show how to do this "generally" as 2 drawing parts.

first i drew this 2d profile

extruded it, then drew a triangle as my edge, extruded that as well

you can either select the wedge, to copy selection and select a base point so you can locate it on the other side, or mirror the component.

what would need to be done before you actually join these pieces is to align your ucs with your part, then rotate about the axis your taper amount.

first you would use the slice command, slice both the main part and one of your wedges, click a side you want to keep. then slice again, but only the wedge, still using your (zx plane in my case) plane, but instead of 0,0 you will use an offset number for your part, i think yours was a few inches.

If you saved both sides from the first operation it would look like this

for the wedge part to save time you could do this first, then mirror the part.

In the case of this specific part i think from the point your file was at, intersect may have been the easiest to use(for me).

i do want to play with your part just a bit more though and try a few things.

here lies the problem with the first part

because the width you need your side pieces to be, the shell cannot go where you want it to. This is why i think some other operation like slice, intersect or subtract will work for that part.

For your other part im not sure what you are trying to do. can you explain that a little to me? It looks like you are trying to shell the solid, but keep a rib? i think you need to add the rib back in after or you will need to to a subtract operation.

to shell the second file you use the shell command, select your solid, then select edge 8 and 7, a for add, then select edge 3, enter. then put in your offset. this should work without the rib and leave that bottom face open. do you need to have the top open as well or was that an accident?

okay so the only way i can see you shelling that second part with the rib is to slice it in the middle first, then using the shell command, select your part, then select the blue lines below, a for add, then the green lines, enter, then your offset. Now your rib will be twice the thickness of your offset once you mirror the part or shell the other half.

Hehehe This is getting complicated.

Thanks very much for the help shifty, VERY appreciated.

I have to go offline for this evening, I'll look some more tomorrow.

Thanks again.

hey paul, i just realized you added a shell 3 above my post(sorry i didnt see it earlier). Im not sure at the moment how to attack that one with the shell command. I dont know that it will work out very well. from what i read above you want to make two separate object. One with the green face open and one with the blue face open?

I have had luck before with making an extra feature on parts and extruding it. then adding them. For example if you draw a cube, 5,5,5. and draw a circle on one face of the cube diameter 3 lets say. Extrude that circle .5 and union the two together. Now do the shell command, and when it asks you for faces to remove, select the edge of the circle. This will give you a hollow cube with a round opening(assuming your thickness is right). At the moment im thinking this may be a way to attack your problem with this part, but i still think the thickness poses an issue because you do not want a shell at the "latch" part but only at the back.

I forgot to mention earlier you dont have to subtract a wedge with tapered faces, youc an subtract one with straight edges and use the taper faces command and taper the face after the solidedit.

If i have the time tomorrow i will try and show you the intersect way to do this. For your second part the shell command i would say is a good way to do it(if you slice it first). Im still not convinced with the latch part that shell will work the way you would like, but ill keep playing around with it when i get the chance.

Ok - With Shifty's help, I've finally got my head around the SOLIDEDIT > SHELL command. What I was having difficulty grasping was the concept of removing or adding faces. In reality, you don't select faces to add or remove, you select edges associated with faces, so if you select one edge between two faces, both are selected. Sounds simple, but I found it confusing for complicated shapes where faces are formed from unusual shapes.

For anyone who's interested, the attached drawing shows examples. The numbers on each edge show the order in which they were added or removed - Blue numbers removed, Magenta numbers added. I've also drawn my earlier model showing why the SOLIDEDIT command doesn't work for that example (exactly as Shifty shows).

Still don't know why that example shells as it does, but hey ho.

There is also a copy of the finished model - I was hoping to achieve using shell, but ultimate created by using Shifty's suggestion of slicing.

Thanks again Shifty for you valuable help.

Shell 4.dwg

no problem paul. Out of curiosity, how did you end up with the drawing farthest down and to the right. The latch with ribs in the middle? You didnt use the shell command did you? or did you slice it first?

for the shell command for your part you need to select two edges that define the face. then you need to add back the vertical portion of those two edges. Should work fine for any shape. If you just select one line, it will remove the two faces associated with that edge.

on the first part we were messing with if your shell distance is equal to the thickness of the smallest part(near the bend) i think you will get a shape you want, but as a general rule it will not work(as far as i know) for what you are trying to do there.