no experience with auto/visual LISP

I have been selected to learn on my own (visualLISP/DCL)

I really would apperciate a recomendation as to where I may find a systamic way to learn this quickly and effectively. i.e training manuals, books, on-line sites. Thanks

Try here:

http://www.cadtutor.net/forum/showthread.php?t=38760

Or here

http://www.cadtutor.net/forum/showthread.php?t=38734

thank you Lee

the best and fastest way to learn is to have a project in mind and try to write it.

this will make more since to you and you will undrestand the concept faster.

when you get hung up just post here and alot of people will jumb at the chance to help

Thanks John, thats very courteous, actually studying at afralisp right now

I will agree with JohnM; but also a very well written site is this one.

http://www.jefferypsanders.com/autolisp.html

This site is not good for the real advance stuff in LISP; but explains the basics very well so you can understand the lingo on the other sites.

..and no my name is not Jeff.

Nice link Olhado - I learnt a few bits of DCL from there

Also, let us not forget the plethora of information that is just sitting in the Visual LISP Editor help files - this is, by far, my first port of call when I am unaware on how to use a new function, and it caters for AutoLISP, VBA, DCL and Visual LISP.

For those who are unaware how to access this, just type either VLISP or VLIDE at the command line and then go to File > New File (Ctrl-N). Then everything should become clear.

Hope this helps,

Lee

yes , the autolisp help files are good

i would suggest doing the tutorial supplyed with autolisp

the garden path tutorial has tons of stuff to learn

from DCL to reactors

I dont agree. If i had to start all over again i would start with [ http://mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/full-text/book/book.html ]

and then move on to the AutoCAD tut's.

This route, you will spend two or three months learning how to program and such then you will spend a few days learning Auto Visual Lisp.

Instead of spending a month "learning" Auto Visual lisp (read: Bad habits of a crappy tut writer) where upon [you] then ask [me] a question where I then tell [you] that [you] are not using the functions properly and thus resulting in [you] constantly having to go back and one and two day yourself into insanity. ...heh, that turned out kinda funny.

> the autolisp help files are good

...If you consider a kick in the pants good.

Now that was funny!

I know of your opinions on this Se7en, and I respect that, but that document is pretty hard going for a complete beginner who wants to get stuck in straight away and get writing.

The trick to learning lisp vlisp is knowing AutoCAD extremely well it self.

The better you know AutoCAD the better programmer you will become.

Learn as many system variables as possible

Learn the basic DXF code reference

Learn how to look things up in acad help as well as the developers help.

It helps to have ideas for programs then try to write them. This will teach you more than any guide due to the real world application of the program.

Learn basic dcl language but then I would suggest moving to openDCL.

OpenDCL will give you a ton more option with dialog boxes and is fairly simple to use and learn. (I did it)

When learning to program spend some time with pen and paper writing down the outline of the program in simple to read terms and also draw out the dialog box if one is used. The better you understand the flow of your program before you write it the easer it will be to write and find potential issues.

When writing a program force your self to make as many comments in the code as you can stand. Believe from experience I cant tell you how many times I reopened a program and spent hours trying to figure out what I was smoking when I wrote it. Making note will help down the road. You might think you will remember but you wont.

Remember every programmer has their own style and there is always more than one-way to achieve the same out come. The trick is to always strive to write a piece of code in as few lines as possible but accomplish you objective.

Don’t be afraid to have more than one page for your project. The more you cram on a page the harder it is to navigate and find issues.

Learn to compile to a vlx file. This way you can have multiple pages and then when compiles its one file to load or distribute.

Lisp is basically a bunch of functions that you use to create on big function

Hence the tern DEFUN means: define function.

No one ever do this when learning but if you will learn to pass arguments between function as early as possible then create a lisp file with all your common functions on it then you just make calls to the functions as needed and you will save hundreds of hours of writing the sane function over and over again.

Example. Say you have a program that requires you to retrieve the vertices of a polyline. When you write the routine you can leave it in the program or place it in your function lisp and make a call to it and retrieve the result.

This way it can be called from other programs you write.

These are just some ideas to keep in mind

I know of your opinions on this Se7en, and I respect that, but that document is pretty hard going for a complete beginner who wants to get stuck in straight away and get writing.

Care to have a friendly discussion (dont be afraid to call me an idiot if you want, we would be having an academic discussion)?

That's the problem: That book is programming 101. Yes, i learned by hacking away but after a few years of getting no where i read that book and it opened my life. It was amazing how much i didnt know and how much i realized that i still dont know.

That book will help you enormously. Heck if you read the first two chapters of that book i bet you could be in the top 10% of the Auto lispers out there and be able to do most of the technical lisp questions asked on forums in your sleep.

I am truly interested in your opinions on why people are so hesitant on reading a book such as SICP. Yes i understand its more involved, but that shouldn't really be an excuse --at least not a valid one-. Yes i know its not the language of choice but Scheme and Autolisp is very similar. ...is it more of a `get rich quick' or `to difficult' type of thing. If its the latter, then i would be willing to help as much as i can --to be totally honest, im not the greatest with the math, but i got a math 101 book here at my desk waiting to be abused and that should get us thru the first two chapters-. And since im being totally honest, its been a long time since ive done any real lisp-ing; i just dont find it interesting anymore. I think the last lisp i did was a proof of concept where i created/modified 10,000 layers with all the values necessary in less then a second (there is an "amount of layers cap" somewhere in the 2000 range but i think the latter layers just overwrite the initial).

...I dont know, maybe i should just go back to my C++ education and get to know C#. I downloaded MS Visual Express the other day. *blah*

This thread is closed gentlemen, thank you everyone for your personal suggestions and comments, they have been helpful. I'm glad that we all have the privilage of being different from one another i.e. learning styles and personal bias's. I feel that I have been given an adequate road map of instruction to get me from a beginner to the status of a luminous being... thank you again

> This thread is closed gentlemen, thank you everyone...

I know what you're intending to say but i feel your delivery is a bit off.

Se7en's current mood: ...whatever.

I must admit, I thought the same - as if you were reprimanding us for continuing with our ponderings...

Beginner's mistake, I apologize, I assumed there were plenty of other topics to be concerned with.

No worries buddy, we knew what you meant

My honorable friend se7en, I feel you have no problem with putting the *I* in opinion

I have no problem with you at all; i understood your intension's.

Ultimately, I think that i just realized that dont like people in general and I should just go back to my C++/academic cave.