AutoCAD MEP or what?

Hi,

First of all let me congratulate you all on this wonderful forum.

I have been a regular reader for a while to learn and do basic stuff

In our small company with have a very young CAD operator, who is reasonably good with 2D and some 3D stuff, which has been more than enough for what we have been doing.

Recently we have won few contracts that require creating 3d layout of boiler houses for presentation and eventually 2d to send to fabrication companies.

From what I have been reading, AutoCAD MEP seems to be the package for representing the project in detailed 3d model. What I need to know is, if I can send 2d drawings from this model for fabrication, in (CAD 2008-2010)

Can someone help us in purchasing the right package? Is AutoCAD MEP the right software for us, or you would recommend something else?

yes you can extract 2d drawings for fabrication from AutoCAD - that's what it is for!

Depending what it is, some people prefer to build from 3d drawings now anyway.

You might also look into the AutoCAD Plant 3D suites.

Boiler Houses is something AutoCAD MEP can do very well. It comes with a full catalog of ANSI standard pipes, pipe fittings, valves, pipe systems, even a really good pre-defined pipe systems that have presets to change different pipe fittings and materials when you go over/under a certain size. AutoCAD MEP is perfect for the contractor to make fully coordinated 3D models, and since it's still AutoCAD the learning curve is not too steep at all. When you make things in "3D" it's always making a 2D representation of it in Plan View, or an Elevation View, etc.

 

Best bang for your buck as a contractor needing to produce coordinated drawings for fab.

Thanks Guys

 

I have done more reading here and it seems like AutoCAD MEP is the right package for us.

I am going to order it and also order the Paul F. Aubin book

 

Thanks

That book is great. You won't be disappointed. Feel free to utilize this forum when you get it installed.

AMEP is an amazing program for construction. This is coming from someone that took the leap from ACAD 2000 to MEP 2012. Those two are worlds apart.

 

Great book also. I bought a different one (author and publisher)for Revit and it was very confusing. Then I bought that one for Amep. That made a big difference. Realy got me up to speed. When I have more time I wil get Aubin's book for Revit MEP, hopefully that will be before my student version of that program runs out! For now the company version of AMEP is all we need.

Well, Revit is a totally different animal. Revit and AutoCAD are two programs that are nothing alike, nor can you take similar approaches in design between the two programs either. The parametric world is much different than a drafting world.

 

I was just hoping that the Aubin book was better than the book I have, which is pretty useless. The book I have just does not explain anything very well. I thought it was me, and maybe some of it is. But I took an online tutorial course for it and there was a big difference in the way things were explained. And then a lot of things made sense. One day I will buy his book for revit mep and take the rest of the course which I never finished.

Well, Revit is a totally different animal. Revit and AutoCAD are two programs that are nothing alike, nor can you take similar approaches in design between the two programs either. The parametric world is much different than a drafting world.

 

 

I had a sales man in our office yesterday, and he was trying to sell us Revit.

He was adamant that autocad MEP will not be the answer to our needs and Revit will do a lot better job

I need to do some more reading??!!

Your salesman is blowing smoke up your rear. Have him show you why he thinks that Revit is better. Don't let him TELL you but have him show you a demo of both products. Autocad MEP will win hands down in a blowout.

For us the coordination aspect of the job which is becoming a pre-requisite is traded as AMEP. A good question would be if it could be done easier with revit and exported and traded as AMEP. I remember reading that if the plans you get are in cad stay with cad it is too much work to design in revit off of cad backgrounds. I don't know if that is still the case.

Since AMEP is a design to fabrication program I am not sure if the information that is sent to the machinery would be lost in the translation.

http://www.quickpen.com/index.php/Products/Vulcan-Product-Overview.html

I see that some things like Trimble's point creator works in both, to then be used in their layout solutions.

http://www.trimble.com/construction/building-construction/layout-solutions/trimble-MEP.aspx

We are in the electrical end of it so it does not matter to us. It seams to me that the mechanical end of it is what is steering the ship.

The re-seller for us was dissapointed that they could not sell us revit. They could have if they would of let us know of the price and package change for 2013. Now there is no MEP suite and you have to get a suite that has to many things bundled together for a lot more money.Navis would have been nice but I get by with TeklaBimSight which is free. Our Re-seller said things like they hate to work in autocad because it is to much like work. It does seam like a lot of people say they won't switch back to cad but I don't know if it is all hype. I can't wait to read stykface's reply now that he made the switch. AMEP is all we need and it is a powerfull and amazing program. I would just like to learn revit incase it does take over the coordination world.

Our Re-seller said things like they hate to work in autocad because it is to much like work. It does seam like a lot of people say they won't switch back to cad but I don't know if it is all hype. I can't wait to read stykface's reply now that he made the switch. AMEP is all we need and it is a powerfull and amazing program.

AutoCAD MEP definitely is a powerful program and I love many things about it. However, your re-seller's comment is dead on. I am finding myself more and more nowadays hating going back to AutoCAD, especially in a team environment. And I most certainly will hype up Revit, but only in a certain production environment. My environment almost demands Revit since I work with the architect, the structural engineer, and all the building engineers (the M's/E's/P's) all in house, and all at the same time. Once we start a job, everything is spot on, fully coordinated, same Titleblock, never worry about the XREF nightmare, etc. But Revit MEP works great if you have a Revit Architecture model to start with.

 

But when I was a "one man show" at a mechanical contractor, AutoCAD MEP was wonderful because we always got DWG backgrounds and I could just "draw" what our contract documents showed. You can't just "draw" in Revit, you "model" in Revit. There's a huge difference, and that's the part of AutoCAD MEP I wish was in Revit, but it's not and never can be because AutoCAD is simply an extension of the drafting board. AutoCAD MEP does have some great functionality but it's only partially intelligent where as Revit is fully intelligent, and since AMEP is still AutoCAD, it's still tied to the "free-form drawing/modeling" world and not the "parametric modeling" world. Now that I'm versed in Revit MEP, if I went back to working at a contractor, I would definitely use Revit MEP on certain BIM jobs.

 

I would just like to learn revit in case it does take over the coordination world.

If I were you I would highly suggest that you get the Autodesk Suite that comes with Revit. Revit "is" the future, no doubt. I'm seeing G.C.'s more and more are pushing the use of Revit models from the contractors for their BIM coordination.

 

I will say this... Revit is SO great to work with in terms of your mind being "free". I feel very free in Revit. What I mean by that is I don't have to worry about updating anything because it does so automatically. Since all sheets that represent 2D linework in Plan View are basically "glasses" that see the Revit model, then when you update things there is never any question that it didn't get updated in another sheet. Last week I changed the tags of some urinals from U-1 to UR-1 and out of the 30+ sheets, I knew they all were updated because of the parametric aspect of the program. Not only that, the architect had all his models updated so on all his floorplans, all the tags updated for him as well. Perfect sync.

 

Creating and managing Titleblock Sheets and Views are simply genius. When you create Revit Families you create them to function the way you want them to so you'll never have to worry about something going haywire. Instant Sections, 3D Views, and the like are so far superior to AutoCAD MEP, it's laughable. I hate making Sections in AutoCAD MEP now that I know Revit very well. In fact, I won't even do it anymore. It's just not worth my time to produce a Section in AutoCAD MEP.

 

Even the simple things, like lineweights are simplified and genius in Revit. So much so I wish Autodesk would get rid of plot styles, and I'm dead serious with all the emotions of my soul and being. Plot styles single handily cause more work and irritation for EVERYONE who uses AutoCAD that I almost want to back-charge Autodesk any time I have to mess with them. It's even worse in AutoCAD MEP because of the Style Manager and Display Manager adds more fuel to the plot style fire. Object based visual control with an aged layer/color based plot style? Man it makes me CRINGE, lol.....

 

Anyways, there are some negatives in Revit. Zero content is a negative for a beginner. Revit Families will make you want to throw your computer out of the window when you first start learning them. And Revit MEP is even worse.... so much so that I won't even go there for now, lol.

 

But once you finally realize that when you double-click the Revit icon on your desktop you must forget everything about AutoCAD, that's when you realize how great Revit is. As you learn Revit you see the insurmountable benefits over AutoCAD and AutoCAD MEP. But don't let any reseller sell you that it's better than AutoCAD because those two programs should not ever be compared. Revit is not "AutoCAD - the next generation" nor is it "AutoCAD on steroids". Revit is a parametric modeling application and AutoCAD is a drafting and free-form modeling application - two totally different platforms for people with two totally different needs.

 

Wow that was longer than I was expecting but hoping my point was made for all it mattered to.

 

MY last question, ( sorry if I ask stupid questions, I don't even know how to draw a single line, never mind modeling)

As I undrestand from your reply (Stykface), these two packes are completely different.

before I go ahead and buy the Revit package and send my CAD guy on some training course, I want to know if its possible to produce some 2d CAD files from the revit files, so customer's and fabricators can open and use it( not everyone have revit).

 

Thanks

Yes you can, there's an Export option. And for the record you can have AutoCAD and Revit together simply by buying a suite, or "package". It's the same price as buying either one by itself, maybe just a tad bit more is all. Make sure to get both, the market really requires the use of both in some situations.

Thanks guys

I made a appointment for the local technical guy from autodesk to come over with a laptop and show us both softwares, some samples of both and help us to buy the right package. I will mention the suite to see what is on offer.

 

Thank you guys

Lee, if you are a person that holds the decision making power in this purchase, and would like more discussion on this, I have no problem having a conversation over the phone to answer any questions. I've been in contracting for many years, and now am in the engineering firm side of things, so I know both sides of the market very well. I have field experience as well as years of design, CAD, project management experience as well.

 

Just thought I'd offer since I know what it's like to be in this very crossroad with nothing but salesman screaming what they think is best.

Wow, great in depth reply earlier.

 

The coordination job that I am working on now was all exported from the Architect and engineers Revit contract documents. Right up to the point the contract was awarded it was still up in the air weather it was going to be coordinated in Revit or AMEP. That is why I got the student version to work with. I would not have been able to do it in Revit and my boss would have had to sub it out. I am down to 12 hours a week on it and the rest of the time in the field. As soon as the smoke clears on this one I will get back into trying it again. It was just starting to make sense. We were dragging our feet on buying the 2012 version and missed out on the MEP suite. The price for both was an extra $500. For the suite in 2013 to get both MEP’s was 1,500. I think. They have the subscription now and that may have been higher with the suite also. It is probably a drop in a bucket for a job that took over a year to bid and negotiate.

 

Lee-Mack, one of the coolest things I think is modeling in 3d and then going to plan view and changing the display representation to schematic. I don’t know if that is what you are looking for your document set but that is real easy. I don't know how to do a screen shot or I would show you what it looks like both ways.

Lee, if you are a person that holds the decision making power in this purchase, and would like more discussion on this, I have no problem having a conversation over the phone to answer any questions. I've been in contracting for many years, and now am in the engineering firm side of things, so I know both sides of the market very well. I have field experience as well as years of design, CAD, project management experience as well.

 

Just thought I'd offer since I know what it's like to be in this very crossroad with nothing but salesman screaming what they think is best.

 

Thank you very much for you offer

PM me your contact number and a suitable time to call, remember I am based in the UK

I am looking forward to talking to you.

 

Thanks

 

Just noticed my PM is not working

lee6800@hotmail.co.uk

Edited August 19, 2012 by lee-mack