AEC object frustration, Flatten Command

Greetings,

I wasn't sure where to post this, as I am just a simple caveman 2D drafter that gets frustrated when cleaning up drawings that contain AEC objects. So, I posted it here since I don't actually work in 3D, I just have to deal with it sometimes.

The Issues:

As a mechanical designer, I get CAD backgrounds passed to me from the Architects I work with. Sometimes those are just straight AutoCAD 2D, sometimes they are Revit files converted to AutoCAD (however they do it), sometimes they are drawings that have been saved to vanilla ACAD (or my AutoCAD 2014 just opens them anyway), but contain AEC objects such as walls, doors and windows.

The problems occur when I try to use the Flatten command to convert the 3D AEC objects to 2D lines. When I do this, the converted lines are relocated, in both position and orientation, relative to the rest of the model. The effect is different depending on if I select "yes" or "no" at the "Remove Hidden Lines?" prompt. What this does is make it seem as if the object disappears from the top plan view, but it is still there in model space somewhere, just floating.

I have tried the Flatten command on these objects as AEC objects, and also after I Explode them to Block References, and down further to individual 3D Faces. The resulting 2D lines are always moved and skewed in all cases, but the particular locations vary, which is also confusing.

I guess I am confused by how the Flatten command is supposed to work, in relation to AEC objects and 3D Faces. Doing a quick search does not yield any promising sounding tutorials (maybe not many drafters use this command?). Shouldn't the results be more straightforward? Why do the objects get moved all over the place after flattening? Is it something in the way that this particular Arch. has set up his drawing? Any help or advice or tutorial suggestions would be welcome.

Nevermind, I am dumb. I figured it out, at least the Flattening part, and the relocating objects. Someone correct me if I am wrong, but you need to be in top, plan view when flattening, to avoid relocation and skewing. The lines were moving around because I was trying to flatten objects whilst viewing them in a 3D orbit. Duh. You can tell that I am a novice at 3D, I can't even figure out how the UCS, and relative UCS position affects the behavior of different objects!

....and also, when you have AEC objects that are part of a group, like AEC Doors and Windows within AEC Walls, then you have to select everything at once when using Flatten, otherwise lines move or disappear.

Re: AEC objects. Have you tried the -EXPORTTOAUTOCAD command?

Well, I'm already viewing the file in vanilla ACAD 2014. The original source file says it was created in ACAD LT 2011, so I am confused as to how there are AEC objects, unless the Arch. used some version of ACAD Architecture to originally draw it, then converted it, then saved it as ACAD LT 2011, or something. Can AEC objects be created in normal ACAD or LT?

In order to get rid of the AEC objects and have 2d geometry, you will need to export as ReMark said. You don't need that program to view the objects. That is why you are able to open it and view the objects. You probably have an Object Enabler that allows you to see the objects.

Okay, it seems a little strange to export from AutoCAD, to AutoCAD, but it worked, and it is a good deal faster than using the Flatten command. Thank you for the assistance.

You're right about that. I've been doing it so long that I don't think twice about it. Make sure to watch the command line for options the next time you do it.

Remark, is there a dialog box version of that in vanilla ACAD? There is in MEP.

Okay, it seems a little strange to export from AutoCAD, to AutoCAD, but it worked, and it is a good deal faster than using the Flatten command. Thank you for the assistance.

The FLATTEN command works for AutoCAD objects, not AEC Objects, which is why your results have been less than satisfactory. Best thing to do is completely forget the FLATTEN tool, as the FLATSHOT command has since replaced the legacy FLATTEN command (accurate precision and very fast).

When dealing with AEC Objects, however, the "-ExportToAutoCAD" tool has some seemingly non-existent documented functionality with it. This is the tool that specifically translates the AEC Objects (Walls, Steel Members, etc) to normal 2D AutoCAD objects (lines, circles, etc). When in a Plan View, the AEC Objects convert to 2D entities. When in a rotated 3D View, the AEC Objects convert to 3D Solids.

Hope this helps next time you're dealing with AEC Objects.

Thanks for all your help, I believe I can now deal with AEC objects with confidence.

You're right about that. I've been doing it so long that I don't think twice about it. Make sure to watch the command line for options the next time you do it.

 

Remark, is there a dialog box version of that in vanilla ACAD? There is in MEP.

Yes, there was a dialog box that opened up when I engaged the command. Most of the options I disregarded, hopefully nothing of consequence happens because I unwittingly failed to check a critical option, whose exact purpose I remain ignorant to. I think even if you do not manually rename the file, it still appends "ACAD..." to it, to differentiate it from the original.

I'm sorry, I was thinking of another command, AECOBJEXPLODE, that has options for the way AutoCAD handles certain parts of the conversion. That command is actually executed during the export process. Typing "EXPORTTOAUTOCAD" does not give you any options but the command line version, typed "-EXPORTTOAUTOCAD", gives you a few options.

It always amazes me how people will click their way through boxes without checking out what they are doing. When you start taking the time to look at options in boxes and at the command line, you will get better at what you are doing.

It always amazes me how people will click their way through boxes without checking out what they are doing. When you start taking the time to look at options in boxes and at the command line, you will get better at what you are doing.

The medical term is "clickitis".

I'm sorry, I was thinking of another command, AECOBJEXPLODE, that has options for the way AutoCAD handles certain parts of the conversion. That command is actually executed during the export process. Typing "EXPORTTOAUTOCAD" does not give you any options but the command line version, typed "-EXPORTTOAUTOCAD", gives you a few options.

 

 

It always amazes me how people will click their way through boxes without checking out what they are doing. When you start taking the time to look at options in boxes and at the command line, you will get better at what you are doing.

In ACAD 2014, AECOBJEXPLODE does not seem to be a recognized command, though AECFORCEEXPLODETOSOLID is. When I start to type EXPORTTOAUTOCAD, it autofills the version with the "-" preceding, so I do get the options box with that.

I'm on MEP and everytime I discuss this with someone using vanilla CAD, I get confused because it doesn't work the way I would expect it to. I thought that using the "-" gives you the command line version of a command. I guess it's not the case with this one. Anyway, I'm glad you got it sorted.

I'm on MEP and everytime I discuss this with someone using vanilla CAD, I get confused because it doesn't work the way I would expect it to.

Hey Rob, what I do in those cases is start AutoCAD MEP in the vanilla profile, that way you get the look and feel of only AutoCAD to double check things when you're offering advice. I, too, still get confused with what meshes with or without vanilla AutoCAD, lol.

I'm on MEP and everytime I discuss this with someone using vanilla CAD, I get confused because it doesn't work the way I would expect it to. I thought that using the "-" gives you the command line version of a command. I guess it's not the case with this one. Anyway, I'm glad you got it sorted.

Yep, I'm still on the other side of the tracks, I have never gone vertical I work for a micro consulting firm, and with the kinds of jobs we work on, we have never had much necessity or motivation to use MEP, let alone something like Revit (though I like to play around with my student version sometimes, for learning). My employer will be happy that I was able to find, with your help, a global solution to the AEC issues. A lot of files we get from Architects do have at least some AEC objects, and my boss was continually frustrated as well when cleaning up drawings. He would try to explode the AEC elements in the wrong fashion and doors would disappear or flip around, etc.

Yep, I'm still on the other side of the tracks, I have never gone vertical I work for a micro consulting firm, and with the kinds of jobs we work on, we have never had much necessity or motivation to use MEP, let alone something like Revit (though I like to play around with my student version sometimes, for learning). My employer will be happy that I was able to find, with your help, a global solution to the AEC issues. A lot of files we get from Architects do have at least some AEC objects, and my boss was continually frustrated as well when cleaning up drawings. He would try to explode the AEC elements in the wrong fashion and doors would disappear or flip around, etc.

In your next upgrade, talk to a reseller about upgrading to a vertical product. Last time I looked into it, the price difference was only $100 more. You still get plain AutoCAD, plus the vertical product (MEP or Architectural). Not so you can use to the full extent, but so you can benefit from having the tools needed for much easier transition of incoming files. There are plenty of benefits too, though, but those are your discretion on usage.

FWIW is all.