A General Question re: 1 to 5000 drawing scales for land surveying.

Is there anyone out there in the CAD tutor space that can give me a history about having a drawing at 1:5000 drawing scale? Is there some benefit to this?

I only ask as when i started in this field, the company i started with (Land Surveying firm) used a 1:5000 drawing scale. At the itme it didn't strike me as odd as it was the norm. It had its nits and irks but i just pushed on as i thought it was the standard.

I then switched to a company and the guy i went there with to set up their CAD department with and myself decided to use a 1:1 Drawing scale. With the use of annotative text and scaled viewports we failed to see the practicality of a 1:5000 drawing scale? It seemed relatively pointless. And that sentiment was shared between myself a relative junior and the said coworker a respective senior Cad Operator with 15 + years experience.

Now i have started back with yet another firm (the other company was a huge a risk and we left) and i am now back to the 1:5000 thing and i can safely say i really see zero use for this structure? And to top it off i do not think that this place uses a true 1:5000 drawing scale i think it some weird hybrid of it.

Can some one fill me in on this so i can better understand why this is even a thing? The benefits or the point i am missing here? It is incredibly frustrating. to work with.

Sounds like they are trying to somehow fit a map scale. The hybrid might be 1" = 1 mile.

Hello,

I know you are referencing land surveying scales but thought I would throw this in...

I have only seen 1:5000 in active use with nautical maps. I have seen 1:5000 for surveying but only listed as available, not actually applied.

Two possibilities come to mind.

One is that the original chief draftsman at the company used to draw county tax maps on paper at that scale, moved into AutoCad in the 1980's and stuck to his procedures on the computer thereby creating a very difficult set of legacy templates for all the noobs that followed.

The other possibility for this system might be that the company commonly made heavy use of full size scanned images of county tax maps or similar real estate maps as underlays, and the tax maps were drawn at 1:5000, which many US counties used to do in the days of hard copy records. 1:5000 is a good scale for the typical subdivision or town when the only info on the map is the lot and block.

It actually seems to make sense to have a template drawing already set up to be able to use these maps as xref's. Keeping the scanned images at their own "full size" preserves the image quality.

I am not sure what the purpose of this whole scenario might be beyond some sort of temporary underlay for general reference.

Thanks guys. I was having a minor melt down yesterday haha. the logical feedback is still appreciated. Even after a good sleep it still seems pretty convoluted given the alternatives. I guess i can't change the system in place here but i am going to add it to my list of stuff i don't like. At least they gave me that option.

I guess while we are talking about what does everyone else do in their workflows?

I don't always do civil, but when I do......

Modelspace scale = 1:1 no matter what, no exceptions, plot scale = 1:1, viewport scale = here's where the magic happens.

I don't always do civil, but when I do......

 

Modelspace scale = 1:1 no matter what, no exceptions, plot scale = 1:1, viewport scale = here's where the magic happens.

RIGHT! Exactly. O.k. I am not crazy then. HaHa

No I have always done it the same way Dana does to.

Its really the whole purpose of Model space / Paper space.

So you can draw in true 1:1 scale. I actually remember when Paper space first came out!

Oh man thats scarry........

No I have always done it the same way Dana does to.

Its really the whole purpose of Model space / Paper space.

So you can draw in true 1:1 scale. I actually remember when Paper space first came out!

Oh man thats scarry........

I have found that just telling them, "A viewport is simply a window looking back into modelspace.", evokes the deer in the headlights expression on their faces.

I don't always do civil, but when I do......

 

Modelspace scale = 1:1 no matter what, no exceptions, plot scale = 1:1, viewport scale = here's where the magic happens.

I always draw in model space at full 1:1 scale, so im not really understanding the question here. Why is there a 5,000 scale? Ive used all kinds of different viewport scales. We use USGS maps alot inserted into model space at full scale so the viewport scale will be accurate. USGS maps are 1:24000. Why is there a 5,000 scale seems as odd as why is there a 1,000 scale to me. Because sometimes its needed...

I worked at a place that had the title block in model space and the sheet was full size. so if you measure the title block it was 1/2" or so smaller than what sheet size you were using. Then all of the drawing parts got scaled down to fit in it. It blew me away they were drawing like this, it is so inefficient.

A little Google'ing:

http://www.e-perimetron.org/Vol_7_1/Meszaros.pdf

I don't know if that helps...

I always draw in model space at full 1:1 scale, so im not really understanding the question here. Why is there a 5,000 scale? Ive used all kinds of different viewport scales. We use USGS maps alot inserted into model space at full scale so the viewport scale will be accurate. USGS maps are 1:24000. Why is there a 5,000 scale seems as odd as why is there a 1,000 scale to me. Because sometimes its needed...

 

I worked at a place that had the title block in model space and the sheet was full size. so if you measure the title block it was 1/2" or so smaller than what sheet size you were using. Then all of the drawing parts got scaled down to fit in it. It blew me away they were drawing like this, it is so inefficient.

The modelspace title blocks aren't really that unusual. This too, is a legacy holdover from the days before paperspace.

I work in architectural - Millwork - residential - Small Commercial construction.

A shop I worked at last year as a consultant, all in 2D, used a template drawing that had modelspace frames (no-print layer) for EVERY possible imperial scale from 1/8" = 1'-0" to full size. These frames were references to viewport sizes used in the layout sheets that were 1/4" smaller all around than their title block border line. The template drawing also had a dimension style, mleader style, text style etc., etc. for each scale. The maddening part of all that is that NONE of the styles were named for the scales they fit. They were just named DIM 1, DIM 2, DIM 3, and so forth. Fortunately there was a reference table in modelspace showing which fit which.

One didn't scale objects to fit in these frames. The drawing was done full size in the frames, but sometimes there was a bit of jockeying and moving to get things arranged in the boxes. Then one would go to ps and fit a modelspace frame by zoom window to the viewport, open properties and adjust the scale to the standard one.

Shop standards dictated that everything be drawn in section/page number order left to right, with the individual pages stacked vertically within section number, and every page labeled in modelspace.

I am not saying that is a bad template system, it just seems like using a B-52 for the work of a Cessna 172.

My personal template has one title block, as an xref for three different paper sizes, 11x17, 18x24, and 24x36. I make extensive use of blocks, xclipped blocks, one size fits all paperspace dims, or annotative dims depending on the need. When using paperspace dims, I just use multiple viewports instead of xclips for details.

I discussed the possibility of using my templates with their title block for the work but they said, "We wouldn't know what to do with them for modifications."

Man am I glad the days of scaling objects up and down are gone:lol:

Man am I glad the days of scaling objects up and down are gone:lol:

I made that dissappear at my old job but now it seems i am back in that environment. It sucks.

Yes it does - Kinda like using a Reverse Scientific Calculator!