Blocks of 3D models and snap points

Many of the video block tutorials i've viewed, focus on simple 2D objects so i'm not able to establish a few concerns I have when it comes to 3D blocks (which i'll use to assemble tubular structures). The unionised 3D models that I've designed (in their current state) can be moved, copied or rotated etc with many governing object snaps, such as quadrant, end, mid on face etc. When it comes to using these 3D components in assembling structures, there'll be specific points on the components i'll need to move and position them around the structures. For example, in terms of steel tube, i'll need quadrant points to snap to at both the ends and along the lengths of tube. In terms of the various fittings, they'll require more than one internal quadrant snap point in order to have two pieces of tube inserted inside (joining tubes with a sleeve).

When it comes to creating Blocks out of these components, will the snap points in the components (pre block creation) be available after the block is created? If not does the block editor provide the tools to allow the user to define specific snap points that are independent of the initially created 'insertion point' of created blocks from 3D models and does the block editor allow the user to navigate the 3D model as one would in Model space??

From what i've seen in the 2D video tutorials, the blocks seem to loose all the original snap points while leaving only a primary insertion point defined at block creation, and it seems only a Top view is provided to make the edits.

Any pointers or clues as to where i'd begin looking for procedures to allow this functionality? I'm not sure on how, what or if the Block Authoring Palette is where I need to focus or if a 'Dynamic Block' is the specific area to investigate.

The image below identifies some examples of where i'd need snap points on some 3D components to be available in a block.

If there is an OSNAP within your geometry then it should be selectable when it is made into a block, you may need to add points into your drawing if you need a grip somewhere that there is no natural OSNAP point. A blocks normal behaviour is only to show the insertion point grip but there is a variable that controls this, change GRIPBLOCK to a value of 1 and all your OSNAP points should show up when a block is selected, at least all the standard geometry grips so as 'end' and 'quadrant'. Using 3D in blocks is OK but the block editor will only allow the model to be viewed in the UCS in which it was created, without getting too complicated, if you need to add points then draw them on a copy of your block in model space and select them with a base point Ctrl+Shift+C (use the insertion point) and then open the block editor and copy the new points into the block at the insertion point (0,0,0), go back to model space and delete the points you created

Hi Steve, thanks for the reply.

After some use I've realised those quadrant points aren't going to be useful in practice, so i've decided on centre snaps instead.

In the block editor I've been selecting the 'Point' parameter, defining a base point (that is positioned slightly away from the defined insert point), select the position of the point parameter label, then assign the Move action, select all objects and close block editor and save.

I have some unexplained behaviour after inserting these blocks into a drawing, I have them in a palette and I click the block and then move into the drawing. When the block is selected I notice the darker blue insertion base point grip as well as the created cyan coloured point/move grip. When I use the move command and click the cyan grip and move the block, another blue grip appears in the original insertion position until I deselect the block. When I use the move command for example and shift right click to select the 'insert' object snap for the base point I notice the insert icon is not located on the block in the expected position, yet it is some where in the distance which looks as if it was the previous position where the block positioned in the drawing. This has be flummoxed.

Can you post a copy of the block, as a note the point parameters are different than just geometric points they are used for dynamically moving blocks and will have a different behaviour than I was describing in my last post

willb: Just curious. Download and open the attached drawing. It contains a simple 3D model which has been saved as a block called test3Dcircle. Insert the block and as it appears on screen press the Ctrl key three times (slowly) in a row and watch what happens. Is this sort of what you are trying to accomplish with your 3D block?

3DModelSnap.dwg

Here's a dwg of the drawing I've used to insert this dynamic block with the additional point/move function:

old

Here's the source dwg with the 3d object used as a basis for the Write Block command:

old

Here's the resulting dwg that the Write Block command saves out:

old

In the source dwg you'll notice a lines layer i created, I drew lines on the model on both side of the band in order to create base points as these snap point don't exist naturally. I'm not 100% certain i'm doing this at all in the correct manner, i'm trudging through inefficiently in trial by error.

Sorry, I couldn't resist. I can't create solids but once I get my hands on one

3DModelSnap.dwg

Here's a dwg of the drawing I've used to insert this dynamic block with the additional point/move function:

http://targontech.ml1.net/Swivel-dynamic-block-point-move-grip%20issue.dwg

 

Here's the source dwg with the 3d object used as a basis for the Write Block command:

http://targontech.ml1.net/Swivel%20Union.dwg

 

Here's the resulting dwg that the Write Block command saves out:

http://targontech.ml1.net/Swivel%20Coupler%20Block.dwg

 

In the source dwg you'll notice a lines layer i created, I drew lines on the model on both side of the band in order to create base points as these snap point don't exist naturally. I'm not 100% certain i'm doing this at all in the correct manner, i'm trudging through inefficiently in trial by error.

For some reason those links aren't working

Hrm, server seems a bit wonky the past few days. I've removed the spaced from the file names see if a right click download works

Hey Remark, i'm not seeing any actions with your block. Looking in the block editor the two positions you've created haven't been assigned any actions.

willb the problem you described before is that the move action only moves the geometry within the block, it's a bit difficult to explain because you include all the geometry to move, and so it looks like the block is moving, but the actual insertion point remains static within model space, when you are using a dynamic action. And you cannot use the dynamic grip when using the normal move command in model space. ReMarks solution is a good idea but I think it only works whilst inserting the block, and wouldn't help for moving blocks at a later time.

PS right clicking the links worked fine, my other suggestion of turning all the block grips on using GRIPBLOCK looks like a no go as well, I didnt realise 3D geometry had so many snap points.

Hey Steve, I'll just have to draw intersecting lines on the various models where I need snap points that aren't natural. I didn't realise (prior to seeing how blocks function in practice) that the regular snaps are available after the blocks are created for use with regular commands, so this has been an important benefit. I must have freaked out when I saw blocks with only a single grip in video tutorials thinking that this is the only place to select them. I don't need to alter the geometry, just need point to pick the parts and place. I'm starting to add some flip actions in some parts that benefit. I'll look at minimising the running object snaps to those that are only suitable at the time of assembly. Thanks for your help.

Did you try get ReMarks method working, it is a good way of getting the blocks in the right place at insertion time.