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  1. #1
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    Default So how are you guys coming along with BIM ?

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    So I thought I'd do a small write up on how CAD is progressing in the UK.

    Over the past number of years (about 5 years), there has been a big drive to get UK CAD production on to an international standard so that CAD can become more collaborative and have the ease of sending to anywhere in the world whereby somebody else can easily pick it up, work on it, interrogate it etc.

    The UK government now stipulate that if a company wishes to bid for, and have any chance of winning, a contract that the government (or government body/agency) holds to award, then such a company must demonstrate BIM Level 2 compliance as a minimum.

    So over the past 3 years our large civil engineering company has made a big drive to introduce CAD standards that fit well and comply with BIM Level 2.

    Its been a struggle and we find that CAD users don't like change, they don't like having to do additional tasks such as creating BIM layer names to the Nth degree for every asset drawn, etc. etc.

    The file names have now become so long that it is verging on the comical.

    So the new struggle is to have an effective method of checking CAD work so that it is complying with the standards.

    As with any change, it seems there is a slow progression from one method to another.
    The younger CAD Techs adapt well, the older ones seem to think their methods are the one and only way to do CAD.
    Probably a similar story up and down the country - every country

  2. #2
    Super Member halam's Avatar
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    What can I add.. Bit Same here in the Netherlands.
    However, the government drive for "bim awareness" (awful words) is less than In uk.
    The bubble will burst..
    Modelling is done with two hands, 2d & 3d. Let it work together..
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  3. #3
    Luminous Being tzframpton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aji2015 View Post
    The younger CAD Techs adapt well, the older ones seem to think their methods are the one and only way to do CAD.
    Probably a similar story up and down the country - every country
    Exactly similar. There are certain guys here on this forum who swear... absolutely swear that BIM and Revit is nothing more than a fad. It's quite hilarious.

    But, I'll always stand by this until something changes, the civil world does not have a good BIM offering yet (if ever). BIM is important in vertical work, not horizontal work. Not sure why civil is so important to be "BIM" anyways.

    -TZ
    Tannar Z. Frampton ™ | Frampton & Associates, Inc.

  4. #4
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    Yes I will fully agree with you that BIM is not tailored yet to working with long linear schemes such as road networks etc.
    Long length drainage schemes for example look silly in 3D, the user has to scroll back and forth the entire length of a scheme to appreciate the model. This can be many miles/kilometers in length. I am half expecting a huge rise in "repetitive strain injury" claims to come flooding through!

    A good solid CAD standard is a good idea, an international CAD standard is also a good idea. But throwing "BIM" at everything and expecting it to work and produce savings no matter what the job is, this is a failing in the making I think.

    But one good side to all this is that people are working to make things better, a lot of new software is coming along that goes to make the digital world of assets and construction more user friendly and more effective to visualize.

    I think I'm correct (although I stand to be corrected) in saying that AutoDesk are in a process of halting developments in the likes of AutoCAD in favour of tailoring new software for BIM.
    Instead of software outlets dictating what can/can't be done, there is now a strong push from the end user to dictate to software developers what they want to be able to do. And BIM is a good 'driver' of that.

  5. #5
    Luminous Being tzframpton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aji2015 View Post
    I think I'm correct (although I stand to be corrected) in saying that AutoDesk are in a process of halting developments in the likes of AutoCAD in favour of tailoring new software for BIM.
    AutoCAD has had its day in certain industries. We couldn't have come this far in our industries without it. People do not want to rely on "drafting lines" anymore. My new hire, I'm teaching him AutoCAD basics just to get him up to speed on the small AutoCAD work we still do, and I'm seeing how much more difficult it is to manipulate linework now. It's second nature to me. But when I get him into Revit, these little nuances of editing linework simply do not matter. The program does all this for you, and does it quite well.

    It's actually made me rethink my next employee. I may hire an experienced AutoCAD only person just to handle all AutoCAD needs. No more "training" in AutoCAD. It's a losing battle in my industry (mechanical, electrical and plumbing). Isometric Plumbing Riser diagrams would be literally the only thing necessary to continue training for and I'd rather have an experienced guy who refuses to adopt new software just handle all AutoCAD based stuff.

    -TZ
    Tannar Z. Frampton ™ | Frampton & Associates, Inc.

  6. #6
    Super Member halam's Avatar
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    BIM this, bim this.. In every single work, phrase, hilarious discussions.
    Do you guys know 'the smurfs'? A lot of bim talk is just like it. You are exactly right with auto desk plans for dwg.
    Maybe you should Look further than Autodesk ..
    Modelling is done with two hands, 2d & 3d. Let it work together..
    https://twitter.com/halammerts

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by aji2015 View Post
    The UK government now stipulate that if a company wishes to bid for, and have any chance of winning, a contract that the government (or government body/agency) holds to award, then such a company must demonstrate BIM Level 2 compliance as a minimum.

    So over the past 3 years our large civil engineering company has made a big drive to introduce CAD standards that fit well and comply with BIM Level 2.
    As a civil engineering firm, what sot of BIM data do you have to provide? What software do you use to generate that data?

    Are you supplying more than 3D solids that look 'pretty'?

    A 3D finished surface model is the obvious one and which most firms would be doing already. As to modelling things like small culvert headwalls in 3D etc, I just don't see the point. I know of one firm that models guideposts in 3D along their road designs... it doesn't mean their design is any better.

  8. #8
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    We are moving to 3D machine control for our civil designs. The last one I did was a drainage line so created a 900mm trench surface model, they went and dug it.
    A man who never made mistakes never made anything

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by halam View Post
    What can I add.. Bit Same here in the Netherlands.
    However, the government drive for "bim awareness" (awful words) is less than In uk.
    The bubble will burst..
    You really think BIM is a "bubble"? BIM is not unique to AutoDesk nor Revit btw. LOTS of applications use some type of BIM file/format (IFC for example). Just saying
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by aji2015 View Post
    ...
    I think I'm correct (although I stand to be corrected) in saying that AutoDesk are in a process of halting developments in the likes of AutoCAD in favour of tailoring new software for BIM.
    ...
    Nah, not anytime soon. As I joking said in another thread, AutoCAD will stop being developed when Linux takes over the desktop market
    Sure BIM is the future, no argument there. There are just WAY too many onesies twosies shops out there doing all kids of work that AutoCAD does just what they need.
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