X-refs should be banned!!!!!

[derek]

I just went for this as the title of my thread for eye catching value

It's most definitely not my opinion, however, it does still seem to be the opinion of some of the senior civil engineering guys.

 

Can anyone shine the light on why they have this "x-refs are the devils work mentality".

 

Personally I dont get it, I can see the advantages of using them and have done without any major problems in the past.

The main arguement against seems to be:

 

CAD Tech A makes changes to infrastructure model and issues drawing 1.

 

CAD Tech B comes along and issues drawing 2 without realising changes have been made to infrastructure model and hey presto the client has a modified drawing without the changes being properly called off within that drawing.

 

Surely the logical way round this is to give your x-refs/models revision numbers that way you need to re-load the new model before changes are effected and you will know you've done that and call up on the drawing.

 

I've seen quite a few drawings now where people have gone to great lengths to gain the same benefits of using x-refs without the control they offer, ie producing 15 sheet layouts from one model and having all the layers appear in each viewport everytime you create a new one for an individual drawing. Then go round switching that off in every viewport.

 

It just doesnt make sense to me when you could break up your project into sensible models ie "drainage" "roads" "topo" whatever then you dont have to go round switching off layers in viewports you'd never want that layer to show in the first place.

 

Am I missing something with the disadvantages of xrefs and the advantages of the single model system?

 

Please give your thoughts.

 

Thanks

[Tiger]

Members that have left this site are usually not missed for obvious reasons, but just this once, I would really like one to come back and hear his shout of glee in seeing a thread named "X-refs should be banned!!!" and then the grumble when he realises you don't agree with him

 

I agree with you Derek, xrefs makes life easier as far as I'm concerned. If I would be mean I would say that those that complain about xrefs and always have trouble with them just don't know how to use them. Not saying that everyone should use them, but like with everything, you need to know how to use them

 

As to why some have a Xref-is-the-devil-view, I dunno.....if I would hazard a guess, I'd say that perhaps the x-refs have not been as easy to handle in previous versions?

[derek]

Cheers Tiger my title had the desired effect then, controversy from the start!!

 

 

Yeah I think being mean the obvious is answer is because people dont know how to use them. I remember doing my apprenticeship and the CAD Manager there was one of these "thou shall not use x-refs or face the bullet" types and I bumped into him years later at a larger company where he was a small fish in a bigger pond and was forced to come to grips with xrefs.

 

It was funny because he's went xref crazy, apparently some of the other boys working with him were saying he uses xrefs when he doesn't need to like for details and sections etc.

 

What a turnaround, I guess the point is once people start to use them properly they see the advantages and soon cant remember what the disadvantage was.

[Coosbaylumber]

I have worked for a few different civil engineers over past few decades. Each of which now has a version of Acad loaded up, and connecting each computer up to a server. In a stand alone situation, the individual computer will run fast, but once accessing he sever it slows way on down. But, in using a server everyone in the office can then access the information and be consistant across the board.

 

In the bottom of all the drawers or desks is a poop sheet with line numbers/types and use of the server noted. You can pull up a drawing off the server, but once you make changes you then have to write the new info to the server at end of Biz day. There are some blinking going on if working off a server, for that is an automatic update.

 

Iffn' Joe A is revising or fixing up a drawing regarding the sewers, then he only needs to see.....

 

Iffn' Jim B is revising or fixing the street plan portion, then he only need to see....

 

Iffn' Jerry C is working on the map, then he only needs to see....

 

Iffn' I am woking on the grading plan, then I only need to see...

 

At 5:02PM the CE for the project then can plot out or pull up on to his computer the work done for that day, and discus various aspects with whoever is in charge then. Did not get it all done? Well then, via the XREF method off the server, we can then see just how far it progressed.

 

Someone has to lay out a page or two to begin the project, but after that it an be added to and revised endlessly. I once worked a a firm who had a server working at 166 MHZ but the individual computers were running much faster. Only needed to contact the server for a few seconds then.

 

If Jack A took information off the server,a nd then did his work at the individual terminal, then his work in old for the day. He need to download any updated materials next morning then. Once everyone in the office is working off same ACAD drawing files then you hear, "That don't fit now. We had to purposely keep this area UP in order to clear..."

 

 

 

Wm.

[rkent]

You aren't missing anything. It is just that projects have to be managed. Simply changing files without full team knowledge will lead to problems. But fewer problems than with everyone doing their own thing.

 

I became a believer 18 years ago when the design team I was on would not use xrefs. The Structural guy moved 8 pump pads by 12", but it didn't show up since we weren't using xrefs, and of course no one said anything. After some expensive charges from the contractor the company I worked for went to xrefs.

 

I later worked for a group out of Chicago and the cadmanager had a crazy complicated method of xrefing. Then it further complicated when those of us in the remote office misinterpreted his instructions. It still kept things coordinated, just at a higher cost than was necessary.

[skipsophrenic]

Derek, the only way i can think of a single layer modeling system would work, is if

people KNEW and remembered to update their drawings properly, and across a big

project of 20+ drawings, that's not as easy done as said, I for one, use x-refs, but

also if I have to stick to a single file I find the use of Layer states VERY useful indeed,

but I'm not tatally x-ref crazy - only the main drawing is xrefed, then any particulant

details i'm doing, are in my drawing, untill the engineer's are happy, and only then does

it get added to the main drawing, (Would help if the layerstates were copied across

too!)

[Tomba02]

Xrefs make life easier for me too, but I have one problem with the layer order. After using xrefs, they won't appear in alfabetical order in my layer control any more. Besides this I would rather not see the layers that are in xrefs in my layer control. Is this possible?

Can any of you help me? (At our office we use the LT version)

[Dipali]

Xrefs make life easier for me too, but I have one problem with the layer order. After using xrefs, they won't appear in alfabetical order in my layer control any more. Besides this I would rather not see the layers that are in xrefs in my layer control. Is this possible?

Can any of you help me? (At our office we use the LT version)

 

open layer manager click on xref & tick box 'invertlayer filter' at bottom left corner than close layer manager

now you willl not see xref layer in dropdown layer control

[Tomba02]

That seems to work! Thank you!