Cad models with Max

[aussie-clive]

G'day All,

 

I'm looking for advice as to how best to integrate AutoCAD and MAX.

 

I've been using AutoCAD since Version 1.4 and so breathe it, yet the accepted MAX wisdom seems to be to import only limited (2d)information and then model in MAX. I can model faster in AutoCAD by 100x and without the tools of AutoCAD - MAX modelling seems like tying my hands.

 

After nearly 30 years I've also got thousands of legacy models; 3dface, Solids and more recently lots of VIZ models too. All of which MAX is supposed to like but it doesn't. I can't seem to refer to my old models with substitute or proxy type eXternal REFerencing, there are numerous problems I have with this relationship, e.g once I get an old model IN to MAX I can't delete it! Deep down MAX seems to ONLY really want mesh based models, which would mean years of stuff down the drain.

 

I'm pretty new to MAX and am wondering if there is a better way? Workflow advice or Tut's - Legacy model transfer?

 

After 30 years with AutoCAD there's still plenty of tricks to learn!

[Cad64]

You should be able to import all of your CAD models into Max. Can you explain what type of problems you are experiencing? There are some import settings that may be able to help. But sometimes Max likes to turn CAD models inside out and sometimes it will only import parts of the model, not the whole thing. You just have to make sure you have good, clean geometry to begin with and then make sure you have your import settings correct and you shouldn't have any real problems. But, you will need to at least learn some of the basics of modeling in Max in order to fix any major problems.

 

By the way, we have a 3DS Max section here, so feel free to ask any questions you may have in that area of the forum. I have moved this question over there into the Beginners section.

 

And if you're having problems with specific models, you can post them here in the forum or you can send them to me via email and I can troubleshoot any issues you may be having.

 

Just out of curiosity, if you're more comfortable with Autocad, why are you now looking towards Max?

[aussie-clive]

Thanks CAD64,

 

The problems I'm having are trying to use the same workflow as I've used with VIZ. That is creating my project unique geometry in CAD (Buildings) - file Linking that within MAX and then looking to substitute some simple non-unique geometry (windows, desks, doors etc.) with a fully materialed up model components.

 

If that model is from VIZ (and MAX does have .DRF as one of it's file open options) and that file from VIZ used AutoCAD solids, then MAX doesn't react well. It doesn't seem willing to substitute the simple geometry for the complex model.

 

Even if I straight import or merge the legacy VIZ info (based on AutoCAD solids) then MAX will not delete it afterwards suggesting that it is linked when it is not.

 

You're right in a way, why bother with MAX, but I'm using VRAY and the results are head and shoulders better when I've gone through the pain... it's just whether it's worth going through the pain? Time may prove you right - bin my investment and work with vanilla rendering... but I've been through 20+ autoCAD upgrades and just want a bit of stability. Chucking all of my VIZ commitment is a bitter pill as it is - so I figure if I can get sorted with MAX then I must be good for the long term? I naively figured somehow that I wouldn't be re-inventing the wheel every 4 or 5 years!

 

I posted in the AutoCAD side because a lot of the MAX people aren't familiar with the CAD side of the tracks and seem to think - get over it and get with the mesh modelling in MAX!

[Cad64]

I posted in the AutoCAD side because a lot of the MAX people aren't familiar with the CAD side of the tracks and seem to think - get over it and get with the mesh modelling in MAX!

 

Well, I work both sides of the fence. I've got over 20 years experience with Autocad and over 5 years experience with Max. I won't try to convince you to switch to Max for your 3D work, but I will tell you that once I learned how to build models in Max I have never gone back to Autocad for 3D work. It's just easier and faster to create my models in Max. But if you're comfortable and confident with Autocad, then stick with it.

 

As for the issues you are experiencing, as I said, if you want to provide me with some of your models I can run some tests and see if I can come up with a suitable workflow for getting them into Max. You should not have to throw away all of your life's work and start over. I'm sure there is a simple fix.

 

Just let me know.

 

By the way, what version of Max are you running?

[aussie-clive]

Thx again,

 

It's tough to get much that's representative within the prescribed file size limits... but see the attached.

 

I'm using '10 and '10 versions and R1.5 Vray.

 

For example, can you delete the computer monitor on the desk? I can't and it's only merged into the Max model.

 

Obviously I want to take an AutoCAD drawing that would have the geometry of the building formed in 3D and items like this desk or windows, doors etc. just indicated as a simple line block for replacement in MAX. Yet Max seems to prevent me with my limited knowledge from achieving this simple and logical substitution.

 

Am I just doing something dumb or expecting too much? To my way of thinking AutoDESK has had 15 years or more to sort out the interfacing of these products and get some real alignment between products. For a start how can you really work MAX without decent object snapping, I simply can't make myself do stuff "by eye"?

 

How long did it take you to feel comfortable with the MAX way?

3D-TEST.zip

[Cad64]

I've had a look at your file and the reason you can't delete the monitor is because it's linked geometry. If you want to delete it just select it, right click and choose "Convert to Editable Poly. Then you will be able to delete it.

 

Max does have object snapping. It works a little differently than what you're used to in Autocad, but it does work just as effectively once you get the hang of it.

 

I was able to jump right into Max pretty easily. I tried several other programs like FormZ and Rhino before I started working with Max, but those other programs just didn't really click with me. But Max just felt right, straight out of the box. Although, having said that, it did take me several months of studying and practicing before I really started getting comfortable with the program.

[aussie-clive]

Why DON'T they have consistent snapping between AutoDESK products though?

 

Oh well....

 

So why would a merged model be "linked".

 

More fundamentally, can you set the AutoCAD drawing to be File-Linked to the MAX model; substitute (or proxy or container or...) the 2d Desk for the MAX Desk Model and then go back to AutoCAD move the desks in the drawing re-save the drawing and update the model without losing all of your material assignments and lights etc.

 

VIZ did this fine but without the more sophisticated render engines, but I simply can't get this workflow procedure to er.... flow for me in MAX?

 

I WILL get MAX and help answer questions on here one day.... I just don't want it to be measured in Years!

[Cad64]

I don't know why your model is linked and I don't know what it is linked to? I Merge models all the time and they have never come in as linked geometry. It must have something to do with Viz? I'm not sure.

 

Yes, you can link your CAD files into Max using the "File Link Manager" which you can find by clicking the big "M" in the upper left corner and then go to "References". This will allow you to modify your CAD model and then Reload the File Link to update your Max scene.

 

It won't take years to get comfortable with Max, but it all depends on how much effort you put forth in learning. If you study and practice every day you will come along much faster than if you just casually pick up things here and there. You just need to commit to learning it and stop trying to compare it to other programs and accept the fact that it works differently than what you're used to. Once you do that, you will have a much easier time learning.

[aussie-clive]

In the meantime though.....

 

how do I substitute 2d line blocks in the "File-Linked" Max model with detailed Max models (in this case the desk) and maintain the link through to the original AutoCAD file, so that if I move the 2d line block in AutoCAD the complex MAX model of the desk will move when the link is updated? I've used "File Link Manager" to link the parent main plan to Max but what do I use to link the simple blocks within that to the detailed MAx blocks / models?

 

Sorry to keep asking the same sort of question, but I'm still not quite there yet?

 

Thx for the patience.

[Cad64]

how do I substitute 2d line blocks in the "File-Linked" Max model with detailed Max models (in this case the desk) and maintain the link through to the original AutoCAD file, so that if I move the 2d line block in AutoCAD the complex MAX model of the desk will move when the link is updated?

 

Let me think about that one for a while. I have some ideas but I will have to test them out later tonight when I get home from work.

[aussie-clive]

I've had an experiment but not succeeded with anything.

 

Substituting an Xref will NOT allow me to select all of the list of components (of the xref) offered - only 1 item from that list instead.

 

If I put everything in a container and select that as the 1 item it still doesn't bring in the rest of the model.

 

I feel like I'm seeking to do something strange here but this is how any architectural office would manage their production of visuals on a project: requiring an updatable link between AutoCAD and MAX. It would be incredible for the Max modelling to be completely reinvented when an architect shifts a wall or alters a level. That to me seems inconceivable.

 

OK File link manager allows the main model to be effectively an Xref but none of the components of that main model. Which is all I'm seeking to achieve.

[Cad64]

I think you're asking for something that's just not possible. You have to remember that Max is not intended to be an architectural program or an extension of your CAD program. That is not its purpose. It does allow you to import your dwg files in order to build models or for rendering, but if things change during the design process, then you just have to make those changes accordingly. Max will not automatically make the changes for you, based on the imported CAD file.

 

Maybe you should be using Autocad Architecture to build your models and then import the model to Max for rendering. Then, if things get changed, you can change the CAD model and update your Max scene.

[aussie-clive]

Oh well thanks anyway.

 

It seems a pity that AutoDESK has effectively abandonded an entire market segment by discontinuing the VIZ product and putting all of their eggs in the Revit basket.

 

Ho hum.

 

Thanks again