Objects are there, but can't be seen until selected: now you see it - now you don't

[SPEERWURF]

I do a small amount of 3d models in ACAD2004, (I have 2007 but don't like the visual styles). When a drawing begins to get complicated (4meg) i encounter an odd display problem. I can select an object that I can not see: its there but not displayed. If I crossing window the drawing, everything shows up as I drew it, but some object are not visible. The problem is quite apparent even with small drawings when viewed off plane in 3d and attempting to draw a referencde line on the XY. the line will be visible when actually drawing it, but at the start of the next command, it disappears. it will still be selectable, if you can find it as some commands do not allow crossing windows.

 

A similar problem occurs when I draw in 2007. The only difference is the object is usually displayed but not where it is expected. When selecting the corner of a simple cube, the pickpoint for the corner may be two object widths away from the displayed object. Agian, a crossing window will show the actual object to be far removed from the shaded object I was looking at.

 

It seems as though the displayed object is disconnected from the actual model, as though the video control can't keep up with the program, although once commands are enacted, there is no screen stutter and rare crashes.

 

Attached are some screenshots (I hope) showing what I see today (now you don't) and what I see after a crossing window (now you see it)

 

Anyone have an idea of what's going on?

system: winxp intel core 2 E6320 1.86G w/ 4g ram pc6400 and video NVIDIA n250gts w/ 512 M ddr3

now you don't.doc

[SPEERWURF]

missed one attachment

[ReMark]

Objects that disappear while working in 3D may mean your hardware is being pushed to its limits.

 

Have you tried shutting down other programs or processes that are running in the background?

 

4GB RAM installed. Did you enable the 3GB switch in your boot.ini file?

 

Have you experienced any "out of memory" errors? Any lockups or crashes?

 

You're running a 32-bit OS and 32-bit version of AutoCAD I suspect too. Any plans to upgrade to a 64-bit system?

 

Curious. What's the drawing file size?

 

Could it be a hardware acceleration issue?

[SPEERWURF]

I've changed video cards once, doubleing the memory on board, with no effect although neither board was ACAD certified and I've never seen the CPU or main board memory taxed beyond 50% although i do not regularly monitor them.

 

The only thing that occasionally works to correct is auditing (with rarely an error found, but somehow the refresh changes things), or shutting down ACAD and retarting the program. but today not even that has solved the issue.

 

I curently run 2004 and 2007 concurrently along with Excel and Outlook and sometimes music. Shutting down any or all others seems to make no difference. Also there is Corporate Symantec always running, no choice.

 

The 3GB switch is in place

 

It is a 32 bit OS and Version of both 2004 & 2007 with no money for system wide upgrade

 

The shown drawing is 3.8M

[ReMark]

The only thing I could suggest is this little experiment. Close all programs and shut down the computer. Wait 20 seconds and reboot. After Windows opens start the version of AutoCAD you are using for this particular drawing. Do not run the other version of AutoCAD. Do not run Outlook, your browser, Excel or even your music. Keep it as lean as possible. I could even suggest a handful of WinXP "processes" but we'll leave these alone for the moment. Of course I realize your antivirus program will be running as IT requires. Now edit your drawing. What happens?

 

Have you asked your IT department IF the antivirus program can be TEMPORARILY disabled (do NOT go on the Internet) so you can evaluate the affect on your CAD program? I had a similar situation at my workplace. At the time though we were running McAfee and users could disable it at their machine themselves. Then in their infinite wisdom the IT department moved to Trend Micro and took away our ability to disable it. I had to ask IT to send someone over to temporarily disable it using their password to get access to the program. What a freakin' PITA.

[SPEERWURF]

Sadly, i am the IT (as ill-equipt as i might be), with the exception of the symantec: it's a long story. Basically, the symantec is going to be running unless great strides are taken.

I can try the experiment although i am skeptical as the issue usually only occurs after the drawing begins to get complicated, ie 2M or more and after i've been editing for a while. In the past, i've been able to work around it by restarting ACAD. that seems to reset what ever is building or leaking.

 

i've had some success by reducing drawing complexity; I've drawn smaller objects and brought then in as blocks, effectivey a non-active xref. That worked for a while, but eventually that particularl drawing needed to be restarted about every two hours.

[ReMark]

It sounds like a memory leak.

 

Symantec can be killed I think it's just a matter of will. But for our experiment it should be running. Humour me and try the experiment unless you have given up already in which case it begs the question "Why did you post in the first place?" There will be no magic bullet for your problem.

 

Do you have an overly large scale list?

 

Are you using xrefs in this drawing?

 

What about layer filters? In use?

[SPEERWURF]

Scale list is very small, no xrefs, no layer filters. Pretty basic 3d models, no mesh surfaces, just some cylinders and a lot of flat panels (millwork and casework for the woodworking industry)

I had hoped that he majic bullet would be using 2007, but the rearraingement of right click commands (pan,zoom & orbit are now two levels into the rihght click instead of right there), and the poor shading options (not to mention this hiding object issue) prevent me from using it more. And while i'm ranting, what the hell is "conceptual" shading? It looks like a third grade art project and isn't that what MS Paint and Sketchup are for?

 

i agree with the memory leak idea but i have one other possiblilty. i've read in posts where physical size (not file size but drawing units) can cause issues. We work in metric units, millimeters in particular and some of the drawings represent rooms of paneling which are 60 feet wide and 40 feet tall. In metric units 18000 units from the origin in length and 12000 in height. Is there a possibility some mathmatical error in large distances could be problematic?

[ReMark]

A mathematical error affecting the visual display of drawing elements? Sorry, I'm not buying that theory but you're more than welcome to pursue it.

 

Want to email me the drawing? I'm running 2010 at the moment. You can see my system specs to the left under Computer Details.

[SPEERWURF]

Sure i can send you the drawing. That will hopefully weed out problems specific to that one drawing, but the problems may not show up for several hours and only if the drawing is edited during that time.

 

The "scale" issue was just a stab in the dark.

 

how would you like the dwg sent?

[ReMark]

Click on my user name ReMark.

 

Then click on View Profile.

 

The topmost visitor message contains my home email address. Copy it. I'll leave it there for all of 5 minutes max. Then it's gone.

 

Time now is 11:07 a.m. EST.

[SPEERWURF]

Today I seem to be able to get the screen to refresh acurately by combinations of save and audit some of the time.

Sorry i missed you, i had an office intruder who wouldn't leave.

[ReMark]

Try again...go fast...the clock is ticking. Countdown from 5...4...3...2...1...

 

Save and Audit combo. Sounds like more of a hassle than it is worth. If you keep finding errors then there has to be something wrong with the drawing file itself or your methods.

[ReMark]

I've had no problem with the drawing so far and I've been playing with it using the Realistic visual style.

 

Nice level of detail by the way.

 

Just for laughs I did a "save as" in 2010 file format. Dropped the file size from 4021 KB to 1307 KB. That's one reason for people to consider upgrading to a newer release. File sizes are getting trimmed down considerably. I did not purge as there wasn't much to weed out.

 

Right now I have Windows, FoxFire, WinAmp, and Norton AV open. I'm going to open Excel, Access, and maybe my old 2004 AutoCAD too just to bump things up a bit and see what happens.

 

I'll be back.

[ReMark]

OK...I'm back.

 

Still no degradation in the image despite remaining in Realistic visual style and that's with another 3D drawing being opened in AutoCAD 2004, a seven page worksheet opened in Excel, a 3000 entry database opened in Access, and Buckcherry playing in the background.

 

I'm inclined to say there is nothing wrong with the drawing file itself. I think it is a hardware-related problem.

 

Even imparting a continuous 3D orbit doesn't break the drawing up any. Spinning like a top at the moment. I'm getting dizzy! LOL

[SPEERWURF]

I would tend to agree as is always works normally for a little while. My only possible solutions at this time would be to tweak the display settings in ACAD. We had built five computers for our engineering department 2 1/2 years ago all with the same specs. the video cards all burned up in 18-24 months and we upgraded all to the card mentioned above. I was very displeased with the resulting lack of change. I could not find "approved" video cards locally and did not have days to wait for replacements so we bought what was on the shelf. Next go around, I'll try an approved ATI card and see if that helps.

 

As a side note, i never see degraded images- just nothing. Or portions of the drawing. In this case, whole blocks are there, but not the neighboring ones. In this instance, i've got nested blocks and I'll routinely get one of the blocks within the nest showing and the other two absent.

[ReMark]

No problem seeing all blocks all the time. Sorry I could not supply you with a definitive solution.

[SPEERWURF]

Thanks for the effort. I had hoped it was something easy, but i'd like to think that i would have thought of that solution before today and obviously I haven't. I'm not the first person to say i'm not as bright as I think.

[ReMark]

Been there...thought of myself that way too. It happens.

 

I sent you a follow-up email with some recommendations for future consideration.

 

Good luck.