can not get the scale right

[ali888]

Hi,

 

I am getting confused about scaling a drawing. I just never quite got it. Anyway, I've drawn a simple drawing just for self learning purpose. I draw a table with dimension 1.6m (L) x 0.8m (W). This is in Model space, of course and I draw it in 1 x 1 meter as base unit. Now I learned this from somewhere that if I want to plot it to scale 1 to 100 in model space in A4 paper size (I was told it's easier to do the scale in model space), I can draw a rectangle with A4 paper size dimension (0.21 x 0.297 m) to represent a paper somewhere in the drawing. Next, scale the rectangle to 100 and then move it to accommodate the drawing that I drew earlier namely the table. Finally, just plot it out by using Window to select the area I want to plot, in this case, anything within the rectangle.

 

After plotting to A4 paper size, I use my scale ruler (1:100) to measure the table, I did not get the right measurement of the table.

 

I wonder if there are any easier way of doing the scale on a drawing.

 

Any help would be much appreciated.

 

Thank you

[Tiger]

I would say that using Paper Space to get the correct scale on your drawing is easier in the long run, even if it might seem a bit complicated at the start.

 

But that aside, your described method should get you a drawing at 1:100 scale. Is the dimensions way-way off? Or just a little bit? If it's just a little bit off then I would suggest when you go to the Plot dialogue box and after you have clicked Window and selected your area - look at the Plot Scale-box to the right of the Window-button. What scale does it say that its plotting in? It should be some version of 1:100. If that Plot Scale is something very un-even, try changing it to something suitable.

[eldon]

You have to understand that the plotting action in AutoCAD always assumes that there is a border around the frame. So in the plotting dialogue, there is usually a Printable area quoted. Make your rectangle a little smaller than this, and then scale it to the size you want, i.e. 100 times for a 1 to 100 plot.

Position your rectangle, and then you could set the Limits to the corners.

Then, first of all, in the plot dialogue, set the Plot scale at Scaled to fit (with plotting to Limits or Window and pick the corners of the rectangle), but then look to see what drawing units are shown in the custom area, and then choose a round number (if it shows 1 mm = 0.134 drawing units for example, then change it to 0.1 drawing units).

Your plot now will be perfectly to scale. but you will have to take cover as the Paper Space aficionados will be badgering you

[Tiger]

... but you will have to take cover as the Paper Space aficionados will be badgering you

 

But Dave will like you so that's ok

[ReMark]

For newbies to AutoCAD the use of paper space layouts would be far easier to learn. Scaling in model space dates back to a time when AutoCAD did not have paper space layouts. In my opinion, if you work in an environment where you get drawings from others you might as well learn BOTH concepts (model space and paper space) because you never know when you'll get a drawing done with either method.

[irneb]

Yep, you'll need to calculate the correct scale factor when printing (you can't simply plot to fit and expect the borders to simply "vanish") - same as you'd have done for using PS, so IMO you're doing work twice by only working in MS. But it's up to you ... I won't "badger" any

[ali888]

Thank you everyone for your help and sharing information.

 

To Tiger,

quote: But that aside, your described method should get you a drawing at 1:100 scale. Is the dimensions way-way off?

Not that much - just a little bit

 

quote: If it's just a little bit off then I would suggest when you go to the Plot dialogue box and after you have clicked Window and selected your area - look at the Plot Scale-box to the right of the Window-button. What scale does it say that its plotting in? It should be some version of 1:100. If that Plot Scale is something very un-even, try changing it to something suitable.

By the default, the Fit to paper checkbox is ticked. In the Scale: Custom, I can see it 1mm = 0.1399 unit.

 

To Eldon,

Yes, I got it right this time. I changed the scale custom from 1mm = 0.1399units to 1mm = 0.9991 and Drawing orientation to Landscape. And it works. well done.

 

Yes, I agree that I need to learn to plot in paper space or Layout space but wonder if anyone would be able to point out where I could get information about scale in paper space.

 

Thank you

[irneb]

Basically that factor you have there is what your zoom factor would be inside the viewport. So you create a viewport on the PS tab (you could use the -VPORTS command, though there's many other ways). Then double click inside it to "activate" it's model space, type Z for zoom, the enter the ratio (e.g. 1mm = 0.991m would be 1/0.991 = 1.0090817) follow by XP so it zooms to scale. So the command line should look like:

Command: _.MSPACE
Command: z
ZOOM
Specify corner of window, enter a scale factor (nX or nXP), or
[All/Center/Dynamic/Extents/Previous/Scale/Window/Object] <real time>: 
1.0090817xp

That's the old way, these days you can setup viewport using preset annotation scales as well, in which case it becomes a simple drop-down selection.

[ReMark]

To make the best use of a paper space layout and viewports one must first start by drawing all objects in model at FULL size. It does not matter if the object is the size of a paperclip or the size of a Boeing 747. Once the object is drawn one moves to a layout. Layouts give us access to paper space. Here is where we create all necessary viewports. It is the viewport that a scale is assigned to. Once that is done we plot at a 1:1 scale from our layout. AutoCAD will correctly size objects that appear in our viewports automatically. That, in a nutshell, is how it is done. There are some other important things the CAD tech must do to make efficient use of layouts which have been covered here at CT in numerous threads previously. First things first though. Check out the CADTutor tutorial re: paperspace you'll find here.

[JD Mather]

In my opinion, if you work in an environment where you get drawings from others you might as well learn BOTH concepts (model space and paper space) because you never know when you'll get a drawing done with either method.

 

Follow Remark's advice to learn both, but -

But you should also understand that there is only one correct way.

Modelspace represents the real world and should be 1:1. Always (unless you are doing something like piping schematics or similar).

Paperspace layout represent a sheet of paper (in the real world a sheet of paper is a sheet of paper - the industry has adopted standards for the sizes of these sheets). We scale our views of the model space onto our paperspace at appropriate scales as needed to convey the design intent.

 

In the real world we don't stretch or shrink (scale) a sheet of paper or the real world. It is what it is.

We scale the view of the real world for the given size sheet of paper.

So logical! So simple!

[DANIEL]

follow JD's advice, it will set you ahead of the curve, at least around these parts lol

[Tiger]

Ali, as you can see, the Paper Space/Model Space debate is an ongoing fight with participants locked in their trenches. Don't take You Must Do It This Way or That Way as THE TRUTH - find what works best for you.

[irneb]

Ali, as you can see, the Paper Space/Model Space debate is an ongoing fight with participants locked in their trenches. Don't take You Must Do It This Way or That Way as THE TRUTH - find what works best for you.

+1 ... There's no 1 "right" answer, only better or worse answers ... and whether it's better / worse depends on your scenario.

 

E.g. you could do away with PS entirely by XReffing various parts into the Layout's model space at relative scales & xclipping to the "viewport" positions. Effectively changing the Layout's model space into a paper space. That's "basically" one of the old (pre 1995) methods of achieving multiple scales on the same sheet. Though at that time (i.e. prior to paper space) there was also no such thing as XRefs, thus you manually had to redefine "blocks" by inserting the model drawings again, and you needed to draw within the boundaries because there was also no xclip. If you don't need multiple scales, then MS becomes less onerous to use exclusively. And if you have all your drawings created NTS or 1:1, then the debate about MS becomes an utter irrelevance.

 

I'd say though, for me if there's any sort of scaling happening then PS becomes quite useful (simply because you need not remember at which scale you need to plot your TB, thus making batch printing (e.g. Publish) a breeze). If there's multiple scaling on the same page, then it becomes a near necessity (since you need to jump through hoops to get that working in MS).