Cannoscale issue

[Marvin7]

I'm trying annotative scaling and it's not behaving the way I expect it to (based on the literature and tutorials I've seen). MSLTSCALE, LTSCALE, PSLTSCALE, & CELTSCALE are all set to 1.

 

I've got a zig-zag linetype line in model space (I first had to load it from AutoCAD's built-in library), and also a paper space 1:100 viewport that shows the line. In model space, where I set CANNOSCALE=1:30 to make it look right, the zig-zag has 10 zig-zags, but in paperspace it's way too big (only 2 zig-zags).

 

Considering my paperspace layout is the size of a piece of paper (11X17"), that's not surprising in and of itself, but my expectation is that by setting CANNOSCALE to some value while my viewport is active, I can make it display correctly in paper space too. Yet, CANNOSCALE seems to have no effect at all in paperspace (and setting CANNOSCALE while the viewport is not active just gives an error).

 

What am I missing here? Is it because my linetype is not set to be annotative?

 

FYI, I'm doing REA for regenall after every change to be safe. ...and the attached file is saved as an AutoCAD2010 file.

cannoscale.dwg

[Marvin7]

To clarify, I want the paper space line to have 10 zig-zags, not 2, but without changing MSLTSCALE, LTSCALE, PSLTSCALE, & CELTSCALE, which I've read multiple sources say it's best to keep them all at =1, and to change CANNOSCALE instead.

[Dana W]

lines and polylines themselves cannot be annotative.

 

You can put them in a block however, and make the block annotative. At least the help file says you can. I am a noob to annotation. I have only tried it once, a few minutes ago with your drawing, but the block would not let me change the annotative property to yes. I'll have to read more about it, and wait for an expert to respond to you, so I can learn how to do it.

 

At this point, If it were me, I would change the linetype scale of that one line to 0.3 in properties. Then it will appear with 10 zigs in paperspace. Then I would forget about annotation scales for a while. The mix of annotation scales and line type scales makes me want to move to the top of a mountain, and throw my shaving gear away.

 

I have one question. Why are your annotative dimensions in paperspace? The point of annotative dimensions is that you can apply them in modelspace, assign the viewport annotative scales to them, and they will automatically appear in paperspace at the correct scale height in whichever viewport they are visible.

[tzframpton]

Your Current Annotation Scale is set to 1:30 in Modelspace, but your Viewport is set to 1:100 in Paperspace. As long as MSLTSCALE is set to 1, the Current Annotation Scale in Modelspace "simulates" the correct representation of Linetypes in a Paperspace Viewport, only if both the Viewport Scale and the Modelspace Current Annotation Scale are identical.

 

Dana is correct that lines and polylines are not annotative, however the MSLTSCALE variable does enable the "linetypes" to correctly represent the visual display in modelspace based on the other settings.

[RobDraw]

The way I think about it is that lines themselves are not annotative but the linetypes that represent those lines are, because they change according to the annotation scale. The confusing part is that they also change according to linetype scale. Once I got past that confusion, I was on my way to understanding annotative scaling.

[Marvin7]

I have one question. Why are your annotative dimensions in paperspace?

We don't do dimensions in model space where I work, and it's not my call. You're right that it's unnecessary. The dims are annotative I guess just because it doesn't hurt anything to make them so.

At this point, If it were me, I would change the linetype scale of that one line to 0.3 in properties. Then it will appear with 10 zigs in paperspace. ... The mix of annotation scales and line type scales makes me want to move to the top of a mountain, and throw my shaving gear away.

That's the way I've been handling these situations. I just figured maybe it was time to see if there was a better way. ...hopefully one that doesn't require moving to the top of a remote mountain.

Dana is correct that lines and polylines are not annotative,...

The way I think about it is that lines themselves are not annotative but the linetypes that represent those lines are, because they change according to the annotation scale.

So is the zig-zag quality of my line annotative? Obviously, I wouldn't expect (or want) the line, itself, to change apparent length.

Your Current Annotation Scale is set to 1:30 in Modelspace, but your Viewport is set to 1:100 in Paperspace. As long as MSLTSCALE is set to 1, the Current Annotation Scale in Modelspace "simulates" the correct representation of Linetypes in a Paperspace Viewport, only if both the Viewport Scale and the Modelspace Current Annotation Scale are identical.

You mention Viewport Scale (i.e., Standard Scale in the viewport's Properties palette), but you didn't mention the Annotation Scale of the viewport (i.e., Annotation Scale in the viewport's Properties palette), so how does the latter factor in?

[RobDraw]

Changing the linetype scale of individual objects is not a good way of doing this. It's a work around to the correct solution.

 

The zig-zag is the part that is annotatively scaled.

 

The annotative scale should match the scale of the viewport.

[tzframpton]

You mention Viewport Scale (i.e., Standard Scale in the viewport's Properties palette), but you didn't mention the Annotation Scale of the viewport (i.e., Annotation Scale in the viewport's Properties palette), so how does the latter factor in?

I'm not familiar with how this effects the View. Sorry, wish I could help there. Upon quick observation, it does some things that I'm not comfortable with using.

[Marvin7]

As long as MSLTSCALE is set to 1, the Current Annotation Scale in Modelspace "simulates" the correct representation of Linetypes in a Paperspace Viewport, only if both the Viewport Scale and the Modelspace Current Annotation Scale are identical.

The annotative scale should match the scale of the viewport.

Got it. But when I set model space's CANNOSCALE to 1:100 so that it is the same as my viewport's 1:100 scale, it results in only 2 zig-zags in both model space and my viewport, so now it's too big in both.

 

Now, if I create a copy of the viewport and set the copy to 1:50 (so I'm zooming in), I can see the zig-zags increase to 6, which proves there is some annotation going on because the zig-zags scale annotatively, but just not to the size I want. Changing the LTSCALE of that individual line seems to be the only fix (short of redefining a new linetype in the linetype manager).

 

Furthermore, if I go back and change model space's CANNOSCALE to 1:20, 1:30, or anything else, I can return to paper space and see that nothing has changed and annotativity (albeit too large) is still being maintained in spite of it.

 

In summary,

a) I can get the linetype to scale annotatively, I just don't get to choose what specific size that will be, and

b) setting model space's CANNOSCALE to the exact same thing as your viewport's scale (what if you have multiple viewports? hmmm) doesn't appear to be necessary anyway because annotativity occurs regardless.

[RobDraw]

Okay, what I said is the way it should work. I haven't played with your drawing yet. I'll see what is going on in the AM.

[Dana W]

Changing the linetype scale of individual objects is not a good way of doing this. It's a work around to the correct solution.

Unless one is about to run over the contract hours. Then I would go to Cadtutor in the morning and get help with it for next time.

[RobDraw]

Unless one is about to run over the contract hours. Then I would go to Cadtutor in the morning and get help with it for next time.

 

 

No fair adding parameters after answers are given.

This is not an annotative scaling issue. Everything works as expected. The problem is the linetype definition is too big. The zigzag linetype needs to be redefined for it to display with the desired number zigs per inch. I have never defined a linetype so I can't tell you how to fix it, only that that is the problem. If that linetype works for you in other situations at the correct settings then I would make a new one for this use. If this is a one off thing that you will never use again, use Dana's suggestion of setting the linetype scale of the object to 0.3 and call it a day.

[SLW210]

I would just draw a zig-zag line if the number of zig-zags are important.

 

Other than that, you'll need to do as Rob or Dana have suggested, redefine the linetype or adjust the LTSCALE.

[Dana W]

No fair adding parameters after answers are given.

Hah, try that one on my current boss.

[Marvin7]

No fair adding parameters after answers are given.

The zigzag linetype needs to be redefined for it to display with the desired number zigs per inch. I have never defined a linetype so I can't tell you how to fix it, only that that is the problem. If that linetype works for you in other situations at the correct settings then I would make a new one for this use. If this is a one off thing that you will never use again, use Dana's suggestion of setting the linetype scale of the object to 0.3 and call it a day.

Well, it's good to know there's not a better way and I'm just ignorant of it, at least. It seems setting an individual line's LTSCALE isn't a bad way to go, really. It's not like it stops AutoCAD from scaling annotatively between different viewports. It's just a correction for the linetype size so you don't have to define a new one.

[Nardino]

if you have the model scale the same as view port scale, 1:100 versus 1:30,the zigzags will be the same. now depending on how many zigs you want, you need to change the global ltscale untill you achieve what you need to see