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Mike_Taylor

Conflicts with Light Fixtures and Ceiling in Linked Model

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Mike_Taylor

We are currently working on our first full revit project, we have a linked architectural model linked into a central model where we sync each discipline as required (pretty straightforward).

 

The issue I am having as that the families for light fixtures cannot "cut" the ceiling where they are placed, which is giving us hundreds of interferences and some annotation symbols (pot lights specifically) aren't showing up.

 

Has anyone one else encountered a problem similar to this, and if so how did you work around it. I have seen people mention copying the ceilings into your model from the central model but this seems rather cumbersome.

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tzframpton

You don't want to use a Light Fixture Family with a Void when the architectural file is Linked. It cannot cut the ceiling "through" the link. Not only that you'd need a Ceiling Hosted Family to do this anyways, and you definitely do not want to Copy/Monitor a ceiling into your project. Best thing to do is create Reference Planes, Name them and Pin them. For instance I'll create a Reference Plane 9'-0" above a level, then name it accordingly... something like "L02 - 9'-0" Ceiling" for a nine foot ceiling on level 2. When you place Light Fixtures, use a Face Based Family and choose the "Workplane" option when you place it, and select the RP in the drop down list. What this also does is associates Light Fixtures to something that is adjustable. Ceiling moved to 9'-6"? No problem! Move the RP and everything moves with it.

 

Another thing to use is Levels, but... I'm not a fan of doing that. Levels should be for Levels - nothing else.

 

Now, I'm not quite understanding what you mean by "hundreds of interferences and some annotation symbols aren't showing up"? What are you interfering with exactly? And Symbols not showing up could be a number of things. Let me ask this: does the Architectural Link have Light Fixtures? If so, you can use a Filter to hide theirs so you can place yours. Is this what you're after?

 

Awaiting further info. :)

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Mike_Taylor

The interference is between the ceiling and any recessed fixture (2x4 Troffers in T-Bar and 6" Downlights in Drywall and T-Bar).

 

The troffers are showing up fine but the pot lights seem to be placing the annotation symbol inside the drywall/tbar ceiling and it is not showing up.

 

We do not have any light fixture in the architectural model (with the exception of the outdoor pole mounted fixtures which I have already taken care of).

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tzframpton

"What" is the interference? I'm still not clear on that.

 

As far as the pot lights... two things you can do. Create a Reflected Ceiling Plan View (instead of a Floor Plan View), OR open V/G > Ceilings and turn the transparency to 100%.

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Mike_Taylor

I will look into the transparency and hopefully that does the trick. I do have the fixtures on a ceiling plan and have ensured that the view range encompasses the lower ceiling where the pot lights are located.

 

Attached is a screenshot of the interference report I am getting. I'm still fairly new to Revit so bear with my inexperience :)

 

Light Fixture Interference.jpg

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tzframpton

Ah, I see... you're literally running an Interference Report. Well, obviously the solid geometry of the ceiling and the geometry of the light fixtures are "technically" interfering, but this is a false positive. This step is completely unnecessary. Running Interferences between things like Duct and Steel Framing is something to consider, but ceilings and light fixtures is a definite no.

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Mike_Taylor

I had the same thought but its still bothers me that this happens. Maybe I am being a bit OCD i guess :P

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tzframpton

WAY too OCD on this one man.

 

Not only that, but you'll never get the full experience if you're using the Link method. Revit is best experienced when you have a single unified, federated model. That way, "hosted" Families become a reality worth using. How can you use a Ceiling Hosted Light Fixture when the ceiling doesn't exist in your Model? You can't. How can you circuit the motor on a Pump in your Electrical model when the Pump is in the Mechanical model? You can't. Get my point?

 

So anytime you're in a Linked environment, you lose a lot of awesome "Revit-isms". Ceilings in Revit are not individual T-Bars with individual tiles that pop in place, it is a solid geometry mass, so running an interference report between a Ceiling Family and Light Fixtures is honestly... ridiculous. That's not even a coordination issue in reality if you think about it... Light Fixtures and Ceilings are cohesive so basically you're taking it down to the gnat's behind and again is completely unnecessary. Steel vs all overhead trades (eg: Conduit, Pipe, Duct, Mechanical Equipment, etc) is a huge one. That one makes sense. Ceilings and Light Fixtures are a total waste of time and effort.

 

:)

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Mike_Taylor

Ok perfect. We only have the architectural and structural linked into our model, our company is doing mechanical, electrical and communication design. I am doing the electrical design and someone else is doing mechanical and we have these sync'd into a central model. The central model has the architectural model linked on a mapped FTP site (I created a batch file to ensure all networking pathing is the same on our end). The architect has requested us to do it like this is they have OUR models linked into a central model on their end.

 

So essentially they have an architectural model, and the models from the 2 companies they are subcontracting out (us and structural) syncing to a central model (I think).

 

I am not sure how you would coordinate a central with 3 outside companies WITHOUT using the Revit Server (as it requires a virtual server to be made for each project essentially).

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tzframpton

Man that sounds.... volatile, lol. Mapping to FTP sites and batch files, etc., hope it all stays stable for you guys. :)

 

Revit Server all the way for us.

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Mike_Taylor

Its actually a bit different then I explained, we have our file management system with I have set up to replace the arch model with the model from their FTP site ensuring it stays up to date with out any work from us (works great so far).

 

I personally would much rather use the Revit server and just host it ourselves but the architect was having none of that.

 

Edit: Fixed about a million spelling mistakes, its a long weekend coming up, cut me some slack!

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rothfus7

I would second that the more you can have all in a single central file, the better off you'll be, though there are obviously several areas where doing this isn't practical. We (MPE firm) often get architectural models from other firms and link them in. It causes the issue of ceilings, walls, and floors now just being identified as "faces" for hosted elements (we manually had to change all of our light fixtures to be face hosted; such a pain!).

I would also second not cutting the ceiling with light fixtures. Not only is it unnecessary, but there's a more pressing issue I've run into more and more. When we link in their model, we want to host our lights to the ceiling (a "face" now) so if the architect moves a ceiling, we know our lights are exactly where they need to be (this is what you should be doing for in-house models, too!). The issue is that architects on larger projects like to model light fixtures for a preliminary coordination/schematic effort for the client, and often have these fixtures cut their ceilings. That means that if I'm going to place my light where the architect has shown, there isn't a ceiling there to host to. My light is either floating in a hole, not at the right elevation, or I have to monitor every room every updated architectural model to ensure that the reference plane I have the lights hosted to (as suggested above) still matches the ceiling height in the room.

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