Mundane Tasks

Hey Guys,

I’m new to Autocad (LT 2010) as you will inevitably lean back in your chair and laugh as you continue reading.

I’m a kid that had to leave college due to being to good at my job and being sent on the road around the United States. With this my scope of work has changed now I have to make electrical schematics and design control systems for power plants. I have always been self taught and don’t fail; however, am aware when I am beating my head against a wall and it would be better to ask someone with specific experience.

I taught myself Visio, until my company was purchased by an out of state company it was fine as PDF’s were the only form I needed to send drawings. I found Wire connections, Stencil set’s and my Custom Stencil’s to be very helpful and efficient and producing quick drawings for my customers or electricians building panels. Visio also helped me to keep all the documentation in one file.

I have been forced to move to Auto Cad 2010 and now have a 30page set of drawings that I had no time to learn Auto Cad on to produce in given time tables so I made them in what I knew and need to remake them in Auto Cad.

#1 Why can I not have multiple pages on my drawing why do I need multiple files?

#2 I start the drawing and go to my layout but nothing is there… That is my print area I assume, where do I set my print area. Can I have one Large Model with multiple Print Area’s / Layout’s and just number the sheets on the layout or should I be using the Batch Plot I believe it’s called?

#3 Are there glue connections, groups, and objects like Visio where if I need to re arrange components on a sheet I don’t have to rethink my wiring connections and just move the routing of the wire? All I see is lines, lines don’t show wire jumps, they require multiple lines instead of just 2 points to connect to as a wire connection would in Visio.

#4 Can I make a standard printable layout that will print always on my drawings and can have model borders (company contact info, signatures, revisions, scales, disclaimers). Obviously I can do this with Layers and just hide the layer so its out of view which is kind of awesome if you ask me being able to hide layers… But do I have to keep copying in that portion of a layer or can I make “Template” specific or custom to my company and type of drawing.

I have ordered a Video Auto Cad Tutorial suite hopefully allot of other questions I have will be in there but while I have available time to do something set aside like this which comes rarely I need to take advantage of it and at least get my feet wet.

Thanks in advance.

#1- Layouts = sheets.

#2- Layouts = pages for titleblocks, etc. Use "Mview" to get a view of the model space from "paperspace".

#3- Not familiar with VISIO.. Try PLINE instead of regular lines. It will keep the "wire" a single entity instead of each turn becoming a new line, and will help with adding arcs as needed. ("stretch" is how you can re-route it to new pathways.. sort of)

#4- Layouts.. PAPERSPACE.

You draw in Modelspace, you print from Tab Layouts..

A layout is a representation of the printed page (and sized accordingly).

Paperspace holds the paper info (such as your logo's, revision notes, titleblocks, etc). An MVIEW WINDOW is a peek at modelspace on your paper. You may use multiple MView windows. (overlapping if need be, but that's usually not desirable).

Hi Kemphas; welcome to the world of AutoCad.

MikeScott has just about said it, I think that most of your questions are to do with learning about about modelspace / paperspace (also known as Layout space).

As you are doing schematics I shouldn't think that you are too bothered about metric or imperial units except for the printing paper sizes.

If its of any help I have posted some drawing templates that use modelspace for drawing and paperspace for output on this and other forums. Heres one link-

http://www.autocadeverything.com/help/showthread.php?t=4380

Although I have to say that when I am doing engineering schematics I tend to do everything in paperspace.

Everybody has their own prefered ways.

Ok so i put the borders in Paperspace through the layout's view..

I tried making a DWT but that saved all the layout's i was messing with and the model space as well... When creating a new layout it asked me which model, i suppose thats fine. This way i can make multiple revision sets for mechancial / electrical rough drafting and final construction issues and master copy layout's...

GETTING THERE!

Question, "Mview" is not available in Model Space. There may be some missunderstanding here on who's part i dont know. If i have a Very Large plant diagram and i want to cut it up into say 10 pages. How would i persay, highlight a section and say set this as the "Viewpoint" (i think thats the right term) for layout #8?!?!? and a Different section for Layout #1 or Layout #3.

Currently if i Type Mview in the command line it asks for a starting point, and a end point (again this is layout menu not model space or i would be fine right now, its not allowed in model space) I click to the top left of my design area and than select the second point but this displays my entire model in the one layout?

Ok so i put the borders in Paperspace through the layout's view..

 

I tried making a DWT but that saved all the layout's i was messing with and the model space as well... When creating a new layout it asked me which model, i suppose thats fine. This way i can make multiple revision sets for mechancial / electrical rough drafting and final construction issues and master copy layout's...

 

GETTING THERE!

 

Question, "Mview" is not available in Model Space. There may be some missunderstanding here on who's part i dont know. If i have a Very Large plant diagram and i want to cut it up into say 10 pages. How would i persay, highlight a section and say set this as the "Viewpoint" (i think thats the right term) for layout #8?!?!? and a Different section for Layout #1 or Layout #3.

 

Currently if i Type Mview in the command line it asks for a starting point, and a end point (again this is layout menu not model space or i would be fine right now, its not allowed in model space) I click to the top left of my design area and than select the second point but this displays my entire model in the one layout?

First create a layer called MVIEW, and set it to no plot, it is a choice over to the right in the layer manager.

Using MVIEW in a layout the resulting viewport will show the entire ModelSpace. Double click inside teh viewport, or pick the PAPER button at the bottom of the screen. You are now in side the viewport and is not locked. Use Zoom, define a window for the area you want to show.

For scaling the view relative to the layout you can use the toolbar or ZOOM, 1xp for a 1:1 plot scale. If it is a schematic that may be what you need.

Now pick the button MODEL and you are out of the viewport, or double click outside the boundary of the viewport. Now you can click on the viewport and then useing the grips in the corners you can further change the size of the viewport to show what you want.

Now pick on the viewport once and lock the viewport, that way you can work inside the viewport and not mess up the view or scale.

It would have helped you immensely if the company had provided you with AutoCAD Electrical. For example, wiring connections would have been much easier to construct, edit and move around.

I was looking forward to features I thought were in AutoCad LT 2010 much like what come to now find out is in AutoCad Electrical and not AutoCad LT.

For a price difference ~4.5k.

Seriously how are software prices so high these days?

I use MatLab as well on a rare occasion I dont have a personal seat myself but when I found out the cost of a Matlab Seat that is insane.. After all the packs you get to ~15,000 Ontop of this I use programs such as Factory Talk and RSLogix 5000 which will set you back another 8,000

At the end of the day My computer is my key tool and is probably worth currently about 20,000 in software alone. But I guess my company recopes that cost in 2 weeks..

Anyways lets not get off subject.

You might want to take a look at this: http://www.we-r-here.com/cad/tutorials/level_2/2-8.htm

Something about that tutorial: The term "paperspace" wasn't replaced by "layout" in R14.. the toggle button still says model/paper on the bottom of the screen on R2006 at least.. is that no longer there on R2010?

as I originally noted..

#2- Layouts = pages for titleblocks, etc. Use "Mview" to get a view of the model space from "paperspace".

you have to be in paperspace not modelspace to make a mview window. Layouts permit you to see paperspace AND modelspace at the same time. As noted above by others, you can zoom-in using the Mview "viewport".

To do that: While in paperspace, you click within the mview boundary and it will make the viewport active (and that puts you in Layout Modelspace mode).. you can zoom, or essentially do anything you could do while in normal modelspace, but it occurs within that window.. to get back to Layout Paperspace, you hit the toggle switch at the bottom that says "Model" and it'll pop back to "paper".

I'm not sure about all the layer discussion presented above in a previous post.. I've never done any of that to get modelspace, paperspace, layouts or mview to work.

I'm not sure about all the layer discussion presented above in a previous post.. I've never done any of that to get modelspace, paperspace, layouts or mview to work.

The idea is to create a dedicated layer for viewports. This is in no means necessary to get viewports to work, but it is good drawing practice, helps keep things organised.

Something about that tutorial: The term "paperspace" wasn't replaced by "layout" in R14.. the toggle button still says model/paper on the bottom of the screen on R2006 at least.. is that no longer there on R2010?

No, the tabs say Model, Layout1, Layout2, etc. The Model/Paper toggle is something different. And yes, the toggle is still there in 2010, it's just not on by default. You have to manually set it to display.

The idea is to create a dedicated layer for viewports. This is in no means necessary to get viewports to work, but it is good drawing practice, helps keep things organised.

Thanks, I'll look at that. Prior to R14 I HAD to do that, but once tabs showed up, I forgot my mview windows were assigned to a layer because I never turn them off anymore and they just kinda' end-up on the zero layer by default.

No, the tabs say Model, Layout1, Layout2, etc. The Model/Paper toggle is something different. And yes, the toggle is still there in 2010, it's just not on by default. You have to manually set it to display.

Not to argue, but I respectfully disagree.

It's still called paperspace all over the internet and in help files in my 2004 AutoCAD, there's plotting options that say Plot Paperspace Last, and Hide Paperspace objects.

Layouts haven't actually replaced it, it just changed how you use it. The layout tabs give you multiple paperspaces to do your layouts on.. A layout consists of a combination of modelspace views and paperspace, or just paperspace itself.

If you access a mview window, you're in Layout modelspace. If you're not in an mview window, but still in Layout, that toggle always says Paper at that point.. which always indicated to me that I was in Layout Paperspace.

If you're in Model view, and hit the Paper toggle, it reverts to the Paperspace on the previous layout tab you accessed.

In the end, it's no big deal, it just surprised me to see that the tutorial said "paperspace" was no longer a thing since R14, but that layouts are now more than just tabs that took you to multiple paperspaces... now they are INSTEAD of paperspace, and now you tell me my button for popping out of mview window usage has been relegated to an optional button which you have to manually choose to display.

What performs that function in 2010 if that's (basically) gone now? How do you switch from working in an mview window without that button?

AutoCAD always had issues with the way it names and handles that kinda stuff.

What performs that function in 2010 if that's (basically) gone now? How do you switch from working in an mview window without that button?

 

AutoCAD always had issues with the way it names and handles that kinda stuff.

While in a Layout with at least one Viewport.

Type MSPACE, now type PSPACE

While in a layout type MODEL or TILEMODE, 1

While in modelspace type TILEMODE, 0, or LAYOUT, Set,

While in a Layout with more than one viewport, type MSPACE. Now type CVPORT, enter a number 2 or higher (depends on how many viewports you have).

CVPORT also works in Modelspace if you have more than one viewport in MS.

ahh.. thanks.

 

If its of any help I have posted some drawing templates that use modelspace for drawing and paperspace for output on this and other forums. Heres one link-

^^ Under 9 posts cant post links:oops:. How did you do this, I moderate a forum for gaming and use PHPBB it would help allot to curb spam if i could enable something like this:P.

Thank you Very much this is exactly what I was am speaking of in Question #4:shock:. I will have to revert my previous drawing templates from Visio so my customer does not see differences and we stick with my general formats.

As for doing all my work in paper space I will be experimenting with large models to get the full view and see how that works for me. But I am leaning towards on IO's for the controllers will be done exclusively in Paper space.

RKent,

In your first post you hit the nail on the head. I only have one addition question to add to this. Should I be annotating in my model or should I be doing all of this in the "Paper Space / Layout" on top of my "Model Viewport" because if I annotate in Model and for instance I cannot have the same scale on all pages would my text size, line weight (Line width) and everything else be all screwed up through pages:(? Or you guys got a trick for this:cry:?

I do very little mechanical drawings, if I do anything I would like it to be an accurate scale if printed 1:1. My mechanical drawings primarily consist of dimensions of cutouts for controllers or brackets and such.

You might want to take a look at this:

^ under 9 posts cant post links.

Thanks I glanced at it and it looks helpful I will look further into it after my next meeting:roll:.

The idea is to create a dedicated layer for viewports. This is in no means necessary to get viewports to work, but it is good drawing practice, helps keep things organized.

I don't get it:unsure:, what do layers have to do with Viewports? I know layers I can separate for example Control A's wiring, Control B's Wiring, Instrumentation, Junction Boxes, Dimensions, Panel Layouts and more...

Can I have a Viewport on a Layout only view certain Layers(This would be awesome guys:huh:)? I thought Layers were to simply clean up the drawing while making it checking off annotations and getting it out of your way or only paying attention to a specific control's wires or something of that nature.

You guys have all been a great help, I am no longer getting aggrivated and im making progress. I can see this being a regular forum for me.

Annotating in MS or PS? This is a huge question you will have to answer for your self over time. Many people will argue over the correct way but the correct way is what works best for you. I tend to annotate in PS, in this method I can have a viewport smaller than the drawing title block and notes and dimensions are placed outside the viewport, against a blank area of the drawing, making them really standout. Now for the exceptions: If the model space work is going to be shown mulitple times in different layouts or it will be xrefed into other drawings then I many want some annotation to be there for those other layouts or in the xref. Also, if I am drawing a detail that can be used in other drawings then I want my annotation in MS so everything stays together.

As for layers, most of the time I don't want the viewport boundary to plot so placing it on its own layer allows me to set that one to no plot and still have it showing for easy manipulation. Some folks freeze that layer which will keep it from plotting, and then thaw it if any adjustment is needed, and then freeze it again

You are on 2010 so in viewports not only can you freeze layers per viewport but you can change the color per layer in the viewport, change the linetype of layers per viewport. Open the layermanager while in a viewport and explore the options off to the right that you may have not noticed. You may have to use the scroll bar to move right.

Not to argue, but I respectfully disagree.

I'm not sure what you disagree with?

If you don't like the tutorial then you should probably contact the person who wrote it and express your concerns. I did not write it, I just provided a link to it because I think it addresses a lot of issues that new users have as far as understanding the differences between paper space and model space.

And yes, I am well aware that it's called paper space. I'm also very much aware of layouts and how they work, but thank you for the refresher course. :wink:

The paper/model tab has been an optional button for quite some time now. At least as far back as 2007. I don't remember if it was optional before then. And I never said the button was gone from 2010. It is still there, you just need to toggle it on, just like all the other buttons along the bottom of the screen, (Ortho, Osnap, Dyn, Lwt, etc.).

I hope that clarifies things.

sorry.. I thought you were agreeing with the tutorial by quoting my disagreement to it. I didn't realize you were just answering the question regarding 2010.. Hopefully what I said helps the OP understand it.

I guess I was confused also. I thought, by your reply to me, that you thought I wrote the tutorial.

No harm no foul. :wink:

Hey guys im back again,

Question #1

The two attached files are showing one of the problems I am having. When I print the text is all screwed up.

(The text that isnt screwed up, I cheated and imported from a VSD format) What am i doing wrong how do i get this stuff to print in landscape and on its correct orrientation?

testprint2.pdf

Test Print.pdf

The book is above 250KB so I couldnt attach the file but the dwg below has the same template o.0

Question #2

On the DWG File how do I hide the Mview border lines?

Ignition Drawing.dwg