Proving A Bad Survey Really Is Wrong

Hello.

We have a situation where a licensed land surveyor made a map for a land owner that was accepted by the planning department. The map depicts a fence blocking off a trail that for reasons outside this forum is actually a public trail. The surveyor says the fence is legal because it is located 300 feet from the shoreline. GPS devices we use put the distance at around 240-250 feet, not 300. But since we are not licensed surveyors, our claim is ignored.

We have pdf copies of the surveyors map which have metes and bounds in degrees and feet. There are no latitude or longitude points on the map to correspond with any of our GPS data.

How we can try to prove our allegation the surveyor is wrong using AutoCAD? How can we measure the shortest distance from the fence to the shoreline which is metes and bounded using AutoCAD? Thanks.

A shoreline moves/changes gradually over time.

There may be survey reference marks listed somewhere on the plan (which or if it is a remote area the entire survey might have been carried out by gps survey.

If you are using the GPS on your iPhone etc then that can be good (1-2m) in some locations although out by 20+ metres in other locations. To confirm that the surveyor is wrong you would need to either get them to go out and do it again (and you will likely have to pay for this again if they were indeed correct the first time) or to get another surveyor to do it.

I'm going to hesitate a guess and say the surveyor is likely right given his gps equipment is much more accurate than whatever you were using (as if you had accurate gps equipment then you would have done the survey yourself).

Thanks Organic.

We have the metes and bounds of the shoreline from the surveyor's map.

Besides GPS, we also found a local town selectman who has Pictometry software, which is very well-regarded and used by many, many planning departments around the world, and based on that measurement the distance to the shoreline agrees with our GPS data.

The property located on the shore and beach could command 30-50 million if sold. The landowner will do anything to keep the public out as they perceive that will diminish the value by having a trail run through the front of the property. I am sure the surveyor was paid well.

The property located on the shore and beach could command 30-50 million if sold. The landowner will do anything to keep the public out as they perceive that will diminish the value by having a trail run through the front of the property. I am sure the surveyor was paid well.

If the stakes are that high then just pay for a second independent survey from a different survey firm.

Hello.

 

We have a situation where a licensed land surveyor made a map for a land owner that was accepted by the planning department. The map depicts a fence blocking off a trail that for reasons outside this forum is actually a public trail. The surveyor says the fence is legal because it is located 300 feet from the shoreline. GPS devices we use put the distance at around 240-250 feet, not 300. But since we are not licensed surveyors, our claim is ignored.

 

We have pdf copies of the surveyors map which have metes and bounds in degrees and feet. There are no latitude or longitude points on the map to correspond with any of our GPS data.

 

How we can try to prove our allegation the surveyor is wrong using AutoCAD? How can we measure the shortest distance from the fence to the shoreline which is metes and bounded using AutoCAD? Thanks.

If the trail is indeed a public land /access then there must be a record of it somewhere. With out knowing where in the world you are from and this survey is of I can't offer to much help on keeping the area open to public access. As for using plain AutoCAD to determine the distance you need to keeping mind that it creates lines/distance in a flat plane not the same as using a coordinate system that takes in the curvature of the earth. As Organic suggests, hire another surveyor to survey the area and "research" the deeds and former surveys.

A shoreline is not a property boundary. Shorelines move. No matter where Mother Nature moves the shoreline, the property does not move or change shape. The relationship of the fence and shoreline is irrelevant, merely descriptive wordage. If you can prove the fence is located improperly from a local monument or benchmark and the surveyed location of the property markers for the lot in question, you may have a case, but you need another survey. Messing about with AutoCad and civilian level GPS coordinates is only going to get you tired and will damage the credibility of your case.

My opinion:

You don't prove anything. You consult with your attorney and follow his/her advice. This is a legal dispute not an AutoCAD dispute. Period.