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DIMENSIONING DEBATE: MODEL OR PAPER SPACE?!

Do you dimension in Model Space or Paper Space?  

182 members have voted

  1. 1. Do you dimension in Model Space or Paper Space?

    • Model Space
    • Paper Space
    • I have no idea what you are talking about


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WannaBeCader

Yeah, Slick has a good point. If dwgs are shared with other trades, (which is prob 95% of the time) having dims in PS would provide a cleaning, easier model to work with. Never thought of that

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JBullseye74

model space model space model space model space model space model space model space model space model space model space

 

We came across a few problems with Dimensioning in paperspace with dims jumping about and the dimlfac randomly changing making some of our dims very large in value... which could have been disastrous if not picked up.

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RickyD302

I perfer having my dim scale set to 0 and dimension thru the view port. This way I can take a detail that was in a view port set @ 3/4" and when I move it to 1 1/2" I just have to update the dimensions and all is good. I only have to mess with one dimension style. I can then use scaletext with spacetrans and scale my text right. Works great with Mtext....not so good with Dtext since the spacing is messed up. I've been using Autocad for only 4 years with 16 years experience using ARRIS.

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EMS_0525

Personally i feel the only things that should be in paper space are the border/title block. I have always done dimensions in MS. What if you wanted to grab a detail to use it on another drawing (seperate file) how would you grab the dims and the object if the dims were in PS? Then theres the problem of moving, rotating, or changing scale of vport, if dims were in model, all you would have to do is dim update fix a little, but if in paperspace big problems.

 

I havent gotten used to using the annotive dims/txt yet, maybe i should look into it. Has anyone had experience with using annotive stuff with an older version of cad? Im the only one in my office with 09, everyone else has 04, and we share dwgs constantly.

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hotrodz0321

MODELSPACE

 

yes, it would provide a much cleaner drawing in modelspace.....but wouldnt it look the exact same if you turned the dimension layer off?....and i understand that sometimes you get a drawing from someone that doesnt place objects on their proper layer but thats another issue entirely....we are assuming everything is on their proper layer just as they should be...

 

if you dimensioned in paperspace wouldnt that same drawing look just as cluttered while looking at it in paperspace? yeah...it would.....

 

just my oppinion...but its been more of a pain for me to do it in paperspace....at least for the type of drafting i've done (arch, civil, survey)

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Doove

Paperspace. Model space is only handy for drawings that have one layout with one viewport and are being used for one purpose.

 

You can complete your design in model space, then produce several layouts (i.e your paper drawings) that are targeted to different needs, i.e. presentation, manufacture, construction, suppliers etc.

If you dim in MS then you have to add extra layers to turn off/on to show the notes / dims you want for each layout. Plus you don't have to worry about ensuring all text heights are equal, which can be a problem with detail callouts in extra viewports.

 

Better to do it all in PS:) .

 

I do however also add dims & notes in MS that are directed towards the draughtsman so they can quickly see essential dims and notes regarding how the model was drawn. These layers I turn off in PS.

 

Model space for modelling and the modellers - paperspace for the rest of 'em:x .

 

You can draw dims in model space for your primary scale then wblock the dims / notes and use changespace to get them in paperspace at the right scale & position although you lose associativity. More useful for stuff like room names and numbers really, espcially if the basic layout is xref'd in and you're adding interior detail; this way you can shift your annotations around to avoid interference with linework.

 

That said, my current employer wants everything done in mspace so that's me told...:cry:

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EMS_0525

If you know how to use the dimstyle and txt style there is no problem gettin dims to scale in model space. I feel it also has to do with what kind of drafting is being done. I just changed jobs, from civil to mechanical. To throw another wrench in it, my current employer doesnt use layout tabs, and im used to using them. It seems stupid to me not to use them.

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hotrodz0321
Paperspace. Model space is only handy for drawings that have one layout with one viewport and are being used for one purpose.

 

You can complete your design in model space, then produce several layouts (i.e your paper drawings) that are targeted to different needs, i.e. presentation, manufacture, construction, suppliers etc.

If you dim in MS then you have to add extra layers to turn off/on to show the notes / dims you want for each layout. Plus you don't have to worry about ensuring all text heights are equal, which can be a problem with detail callouts in extra viewports.

 

Better to do it all in PS:) .

 

I do however also add dims & notes in MS that are directed towards the draughtsman so they can quickly see essential dims and notes regarding how the model was drawn. These layers I turn off in PS.

 

Model space for modelling and the modellers - paperspace for the rest of 'em:x .

 

You can draw dims in model space for your primary scale then wblock the dims / notes and use changespace to get them in paperspace at the right scale & position although you lose associativity. More useful for stuff like room names and numbers really, espcially if the basic layout is xref'd in and you're adding interior detail; this way you can shift your annotations around to avoid interference with linework.

 

That said, my current employer wants everything done in mspace so that's me told...:cry:

 

so if a revision needs to be made or a mistake was made in the initial dimensioning, then you have to find all the sheets that have the dimensions that need changed and update them...or block them out again and/or redefine the block you made of the dimensions (assuming that you didnt explode that block already)...

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Doove
so if a revision needs to be made or a mistake was made in the initial dimensioning, then you have to find all the sheets that have the dimensions that need changed and update them...or block them out again and/or redefine the block you made of the dimensions (assuming that you didnt explode that block already)...

 

sorry should have been clearer, only ever did this for building services drawings, we took as built drawings after final survey, trimmed them of pretty much all construction detail and used them as master xrefs; then added fire zones, emergency lighting, and all sorts. Also used them for proposed refurbishment plans. It was far quicker to add room names, nos and certain notes and dims in the master xref then wblock them. We would later use the wblock on a new layout and explode it so we could move the text around to avoid the detail that was being shown on that particular drawing. The problem was that the buildings were very large and text etc was positioned and scaled for A1 or A0 plots but frequently the engineers and building managers wanted A3 or A2 layouts, so inserting the block in model space then changing space to paperspace when scaled correctly and THEN moving them around saved a bit of time.

 

Now I come to tell someone it seems a bit daft. Still I just do as I'm told :wink: .

 

But you're right, to do this with design drawings would be painful when revision time came around, plus I don't think I've ever worked anywhere else that made one drawing file do so much, we would frequently have drawings with 8 or more layouts, most companies tend to go the separate dwg file for separate drawing nos as it makes more sense with the file system in MS Explorer, and of course, you don't have to change pathways to a file if the drawing on one layout changes but not on the others.

 

That would be a good poll too - one drawing number per dwg file or more?

 

By the way, EMS_5025, how do you get the text and dim styles to scale; I mean if you have two or more viewports at different vport scales? I always thought you had to either put the different scaled text on different layers and switch off the one you don't want in the respective viewports? I know the annotative objects will do it but I've never really used them. Anyone want to make a case for going annotative?

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tzframpton

If whatever I design was guaranteed to have no revisions, no change orders, no extra detailing or "layout" changes, and not using a Shell building for a continuing Tenant Finishout construction plan as a future job, then yes I would put my dimensions and notations in Paperspace.

 

Until then, Modelspace is where my dimensions will always be placed. :)

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EMS_0525
By the way, EMS_5025, how do you get the text and dim styles to scale; I mean if you have two or more viewports at different vport scales? I always thought you had to either put the different scaled text on different layers and switch off the one you don't want in the respective viewports? I know the annotative objects will do it but I've never really used them. Anyone want to make a case for going annotative?

 

First of all make sure the dimension update automatically is turned off. Then say you have a detail at 1/2"=1' create a dimension style at that scale. Use it to do all the dimensioning. Then create another dimstyle at what ever other scale you are using. and make it current and dimension it... no real trick to it. The dims you did at the first scale will stay the same unless you do dim update. Oh, one thing that needs to be done also, make a text style with a height of 0 and use that in the dimstyles, the text height in the dim style will over ride the txt height of 0 so that the text height changes with the dim style. This is assuming the objects that you are dimensioning are seperate pieces, example: steel construction drawings with seperate details of the connections, it can all be in the same layout and many different scales. but seperately in model space. but if you wanted a detail of something that was at a larger scale yes you would have to make another layer and turn one off in the appropriate viewport.

 

At my last company we did entire gravity sewer lines for communitites in one drawing file, and had hundreds of layouts, i think the max number of layouts is around 260. It is much easier working in one drawing.

 

Let me know if you didnt understand that.... it is alot of info. You really have to understand how the dimstyle works to get everything else to work too..... it frustrated me for a looong time until i figured it out, then it was like a switch was turned.

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BOB'27T

Modelspace always, no exceptions!!

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rookie37
My current job insists on PS, which I really really dislike.

 

I was the same.

 

Now I perfure MS

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Doove

Here's a good one for you then, you model space enthusiasts.

 

How do you dimension 3D models in Autocad (vanilla) in modelspace?

 

The gauntlet has been thrown...:twisted:

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EMS_0525
Here's a good one for you then, you model space enthusiasts.

 

How do you dimension 3D models in Autocad (vanilla) in modelspace?

 

The gauntlet has been thrown...:twisted:

 

I just got a new job, and really first doing any major 3d work. That is what i came across, i think it will be easier to dimension in PS. I am using the 3DCLIP command also so if i were to dim in ms some of them wouldnt show up.

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Doove

In some of the mcad software I've used - though I haven't used Inverntor - the dims automatically align to the view so you can dim in modelspace. That would be a nice tool in the next version of acad.

 

You can get hold of free 3D text blocks which can be handy. I would also investigate if you can alter the 3D rotation using annotative dims; never tried it meself.

 

Another handy tool would be 3D dynamic blocks.

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rookie37
First of all make sure the dimension update automatically is turned off. Then say you have a detail at 1/2"=1' create a dimension style at that scale. Use it to do all the dimensioning. Then create another dimstyle at what ever other scale you are using. and make it current and dimension it... no real trick to it. The dims you did at the first scale will stay the same unless you do dim update. Oh, one thing that needs to be done also, make a text style with a height of 0 and use that in the dimstyles, the text height in the dim style will over ride the txt height of 0 so that the text height changes with the dim style. This is assuming the objects that you are dimensioning are seperate pieces, example: steel construction drawings with seperate details of the connections, it can all be in the same layout and many different scales. but seperately in model space. but if you wanted a detail of something that was at a larger scale yes you would have to make another layer and turn one off in the appropriate viewport.

 

At my last company we did entire gravity sewer lines for communitites in one drawing file, and had hundreds of layouts, i think the max number of layouts is around 260. It is much easier working in one drawing.

 

Let me know if you didnt understand that.... it is alot of info. You really have to understand how the dimstyle works to get everything else to work too..... it frustrated me for a looong time until i figured it out, then it was like a switch was turned.

 

I think I stopped using modelspace because I became lazy and/or forgot how

 

Thank you for this post. I'm a contractor and need to do both however I have avoided modelspace because I forgot how or more accuratly I got use to paperspace too much

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EMS_0525
I think I stopped using modelspace because I became lazy and/or forgot how

 

Thank you for this post. I'm a contractor and need to do both however I have avoided modelspace because I forgot how or more accuratly I got use to paperspace too much

 

Your welcome. In my opinion thats the way it should be done, the best way i can see for doing it this way is what if you wanted to grab a detail or even a whole drawing to use in another drawing file? You couldnt grab dims and the object if the object was in model and the dims were in ps. Thats the biggest advantage i can see, the kind of drafing i do we constantly reuse stuff, and if ithe scale changes, no biggie, switch to the correct dim scale and dim update.

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soleary
This is assuming the objects that you are dimensioning are seperate pieces, example: steel construction drawings with seperate details of the connections, it can all be in the same layout and many different scales. but seperately in model space. but if you wanted a detail of something that was at a larger scale yes you would have to make another layer and turn one off in the appropriate viewport.

Hi EMS_0525. This is a topic that interests me and I have another thread running at the same time. But I'm interested in your comment here.

 

Are you saying above, that if your dimensions are in MS and you are in PS, that you would have to create a separate layer for your dimension if you are taking different views of the same dimensioned object at different scales? So, for example, you create a square in MS and dimension it in model space. You then create 2 viewports in PS and take one view of the square at 1:1 and another at 1:2. So you are looking at the SAME object at different scales. If that's the case, with annotation scaling you DON'T need to create another layer and turn one off in the appropriate viewport. You can just apply the annotation scale that you desire to the viewport and assuming you have applied that annotation scale to the dimension only that scale will show in that viewport. It saves the whole area of having to create separate dimension layers (and dimstyles) for different scales.

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EMS_0525

That is correct soleary, I am trying to teach my self the annotative scales. I am used to previous versions that didnt have annotive scale, with the annotative scales what you stated is possible, im still not used to using that tool yet. I still havent got a handle on the annotive scales.

 

I use the same concept for many things, take this tank weldment drawing... i have everything on one view, this is modelspace

MS1.jpg

 

then in paperspace in one layout all i have is the dimensions

PS2.jpg

 

then the other lay out all i have are the part labels.

PS3.jpg

 

Creating different layers and turning off certain one ins certain viewports is really handy, and now you can even change the color of layers in viewports and that wont effect the actual layer color in model space. I have used that a few times and its handy.

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